Wounded animals - WARNING - UNPLEASANT POST

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:57
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Hi, following on from a previous post I can't seem to find (which is where I intended to keep this BTW), I thought I'd give my further thoughts on the subject as this unfortunately is a fact of country travel in Australia. I had a lot of time to think whether to post or not, but I think it should be discussed.

A couple of days ago I came across a billy goat on the road between Wooramel and Overlander. I had just been hit by a vehicle and clearly had both back legs snapped and was trying to drag itself away. The rest of his mob were all standing around bleating and urging him on. Horrible. It was clear he was in for a very drawn out (no leaks) and agonisingly painful death so I swiftly put him out of his misery.

Legal or illegal, DEC (CALM) approved or not, this was without question the only appropriate course of action.

To all those who argued adhering to the letter of the law in the previous post, I question your humanity. After thinking about it, I cannot comprehend how you could possibly argue to leave him there like that.

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Reply By: Member - Michael J (SA) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:08

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:08
I'm with you V8Diesel.

Cheers
Michael
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Reply By: Nick R - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:17

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:17
I remember the last post on this.
twas the kindest thing you could do.....
NickR
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Reply By: Scoof - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:22

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:22
V8 D Good on you , I would of done the same.

Scoof
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Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:24

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:24
I was going away a few years ago & had the same experience with a kangaroo.
It had been left with hideous injuries by some scumbag/s to die an agonising death.

As asked previously, what options do you have when you are miles from anywhere?

My only option was a mattock handle, which fortunately was quick & merciful.

It totally ruined the holiday for all concerned, I still think about it to this day.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:47

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:47
I had the same experience with an emu near Menindee Lakes. it had been hit and was trying to ger away with one leg badly smashed. We did the right thing by the poor bastard and ended it's agony.
Now, if only Harold Scruby could be found with a broken leg then maybe someone could do the same for him!!
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Follow Up By: Ozboc - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 19:34

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 19:34
Ian - that Knob ended up on Tv again the other night - did you see him ? was talking about cars and there speed at schools - he got al upset when he seen an old 4x4 come past - to which he said " this will be good " - but the 4x4 cruised past really slow without any probs in the school zone ---- kind of made him look silly

Boc
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:25

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:25
I would be cruel to leave him there. I would have done the same
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Reply By: Robert - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:28

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:28
Glad to hear there are some people like you v8diesel.

It's hard to comprehend how some people can be so callous and inhuman.

I wonder how they would feel if left suffering in agonising pain!
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Reply By: Member - Rotord - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:34

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:34
Well done .

During the filming of The Man From Snowy river a horse broke a leg . The professional horsemen dispatched it quickly by hitting it on the head with an axe . The RSPCA dragged them into court charged with cruelty in relation to the method of the euthanasia . Common sense prevailed and the case was thrown out . The RSPCA would no doubt have been happy to have the horse remain in agony waiting for a vet or the police . You have to wonder .
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:25

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:25
Didnt he have an axe for the dunb ass that reported him?
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Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:44

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:44
As I remember it , the RSPCA had an observer present to see that the horses weren't misstreated during filming . The next problem may have been that working firearms or live ammunition were banned from the set to prevent them being mixed up with the film weapons .
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Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:37

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:37
Good on you.

Nasty situation.

Feel for the animal.

I find those situations still haunt you for a while, but not much else you could do.

How can some one leave an animal like that?
Still alive and in agony.
So what if it takes and hour or so to track down the owner.
Sometimes a 2nd opinion might recover the animal.

I accidently ran over a cat and killed it. Black cat on a dark road and no moon, and it darted out. No chance. So I door knocked the street till I found the owner and let them know what happened.
Felt it was the least I could do rather than leaving it dead in the gutter, but it wasn't easy. Didn't know if I was going to get flattened or not.
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:21

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:21
Similar happened to me one day going home from work, backstreet, broad daylihgt
cat ran out into the side of me, I saw something in my side mirror run under the car, felt a thud, hit the brakes (not knowing what it was at the time, heart in my feet by now), car behind told me it was a cat but it had taken off. I knew I had hit it as I felt the thud. Went knocking on doors and found it in a shed in one of the houses. Surprisingly it was OK, a few bruises but none the less OK. Felt awful but couldn't keep going as I was worried that it may be badly injured and could die without help.

Cheers

D


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Reply By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:41

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 13:41
Part of the point I was trying to raise was some previous poster's arguing that this may be illegal or against regulations along the road or in any National Park etc. Also feral or not, no creature should suffer like that if it's in any way avoidable.

I cannot fathom how they'd argue that point and walk away. There is clearly a right and a wrong course of action as a human being, whatever the current regulations say.

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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 14:56

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 14:56
You did the right thing no matter where it was.

Leave the politically correct amongst us to wring their hands, beat their breasts and wait for the authorities to tell them when to fart. Meanwhile the rest of us will get on with life :)))))
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:41

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:41
"On the orderrrrr........preeeepahhhhh to break wind"

"Sahhh!"

"FAHHRRRT!"

rumblerumblerumblerumble....

Sorry Gramps, just pictured this from my days in Air Cadets on latrine duty at the Jumperkine bivouac......hahahaha;-))))))))))
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Reply By: gav99x - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:31

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:31
Good on you V8deisel.

It would have been bloody hard to do I can only imagine, but the alternative is not an alternative if you know what I mean.

I dread the day it happens to me and hope I have the same fortitude as you seem to have displayed.

Well done.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:37

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 15:37
He was blessed you were there V8 Diesel...
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Reply By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:26

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:26
Well done V8Diesel, I think that the majority of people would have done the same, (well at least I hope so) the only humane thing to do. We would definitely have done the same. There are so many different animals that you can hit up there. Unusual to see dead goats on the side of the road, they seem to get out of the way.

Cheers



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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:49

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:49
More goats than I've ever seen, even back when they were everywhere in the early 90's. They are in plague proportions IMHO.

Never seen a roadkill goat either, they're way too smart for that. Did see a ton of roos, an emu and some cattle which was a sobering thought. Certainly wouldn't want to clobber one of them at 130kmh, or even 30kmh for that matter.
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 08:34

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 08:34
I had a mate in Darwin that hit a water buffalo on the Stuart Highway at 200+ kmh in his Porsche 911 Turbo. They went under it and it took the roof off on it's way past. The buff was killed and there was $20,000 damage to the car but both passengers were relatively unscathed, just some bruising and glass cuts.

He reckons if he was in his other car, a ford LTD they would have both been dead.

Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 09:22

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 09:22
its the bloody feral breeding land wrecking waste massive amounts of land pastoralists that are to blame. You never see a goat out bush coz they are getting bred on the stations. most goldfields statons are destocked but with goats running amock. No shooting is allowed and roundups are rarely done. So much of our land taken up by so few with no care involved. Most make their money by fleecing mining/exploration activities (sometimes by extortion) within there boundaries
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Reply By: The Explorer - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:42

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 16:42
I all for shooting any goat actually

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Greg
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Follow Up By: Kev M (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:43

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:43
Keep away from Canberra then. LOL

V8,
Don't let the self righteous bastards get to you. They don't seem to understand that you ended the suffering of an animal that someone else did not have the guts to do.
To have an injured animal of any description placed in a vehicle to take to the nearest Vet or WIRES is at times unobtainable or outright dangerous. It is good to see that common sense prevailed and that the animal was put out of its misery as quickly as possible.
I have put countless animals out of their misery including a pig dog that pig hunters had misplaced in the bush due to poor animal husbandry. ie no breast or neck protection for dog and lack of training of the dog. I found it with large rips which caused an huge amount of blood loss. The owners ended up fined for mistreatment.

So I know what your getting at, so keep on keeping on.

Cheers Kev

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Reply By: donks1 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:45

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:45
would have done the same..

was the goat taged??

goats in many places are ferral and are culled like wild pigs..

regardles of ferral or not though, it needed to be dealt with quickly

donks
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Reply By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:52

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:52
Well done V8 Diesel, needed to be done and you made the correct choice. Just reading this reminded me of a Rottie I saw on Northern rd this morning heading to work, half laying out from gutter and and his head just past the side line in the actual lane. Dead as and had a truck up my arse so did a u turn further down at the lights and went back but just as I turned back a copper was there so kept going but bought a tear to the eye as I have a rottie as well and thought the poor people that own it and probably the kids pet as well. But I'm glad the copps did the right thing and moved it as it would have had its head crushed with out fail with the trucks that travel that road in the mornings would have been bad enough for the owners let alone seeing it ran over by a truck as well. Good on ya bloody do gooders have no fricken idea. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:58

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 17:58
It's law in Victoria to report dog road deaths.
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:24

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 18:24
Yes Diesel IMHO you did the right thing. Goat or any other animal, they do not deserve to endure pain like that that inevitably ends on death. Good job mate.

Had to tonk a roo on my honeymoon (that is not a euphamism) for the same reason. Its a awful thing to have to do but I believe the correct thing.
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Reply By: kimprado - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 20:59

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 20:59
I've come across this type of situation many times, particularly tourist walking around in circles attempting to call the local Vet on the Satellite phone. No thought seems to be given to the fact that the vet is two hundred Klms (or more) from the the scene.

I had one case where I was attacked by a woman tourist for belting an Emu over the head that had a broken back.

All suffering animals should be put down. However, a word of warning. Be careful when approaching an injured animal.

If the animal is large, such as a Brahman or Buffalo and you don't have a rifle, drive the front wheels onto the neck of the animal and suffocate it.

May not sound good, but that's the way it is.

Regards

Kim
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Reply By: Jimbo - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:20

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 21:20
Well done.

It's bit hard beating an animal to death (unless it's a cat LOL) but it was the decent and humane thing to do.
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Reply By: Bros 1 - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:01

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:01
Yeah, you got my vote.
Cheers,
Bros.
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Reply By: babs - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:45

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:45
You have my support V8Diesel, though I'm a bit disappointed you did not eat him, its good meat on a spit. Lol
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 23:14

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 23:14
He was a Billy - the meat's too tough and stinky. The kids taste good however.
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Follow Up By: Kev M (NSW) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 08:10

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 08:10
Mike Harding would resent that comment. ha ha ha

Cheers Kev
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:58

Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 at 22:58
The topic came up on ABC Radio in Sydney this arvo. A woman was killed when she swerved to miss an echidna and that prompted the discussion.

They had an advanced driving instructor talk about the driving part and then a guy from wires talked about what to do if you do injure or come across an injured animal. His opinion was that if you are comfortable with doing it and have the means you should end the suffering. But he said that if to do so would traumatise you or those around you then you should leave it.

Personally I would feel the need to do what I could for the animal even though I am very uncomfortable doing that sort of thing, but I would minimise the impact of such an action on my family. They would be moved well away from the area to a place where they could not see what was happening.

I can understand how even the thought of doing this could make some people ill. But for me it's a case of the lesser of two evils.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Big Woody - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 05:23

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 05:23
Hi Duncs,

I heard that discussion and agreed with most of what was said but only partially on the issue of traumatising the family.
I work in the mental health field and daily see people afected by Post Traumtic Stress Disorder.

My concern is that we are becoming a society of weak individuals and that the humane act of putting an animal out of it's misery could be enough to trigger some sort of traumatic episode that a person can carry on through their entire life.
I think my role as a parent is to teach my kids that some things in life are going to be tough to deal with and to help them to develop the character strong enough that when it counts, they are able to suck it up and do what needs to be done.
My kids have watched me stop after we had hit and half killed a sheep out near Windorah. They watched me use the back of an axe to finish it off to stop it's suffering. They also saw how hard it was for me to do and how sick it made me feel afterwards.
My hope is that they will grow up with the strength of character to be able to do the same thing.

The confusing part to this equation is that issues like this only seem to really have any long term effect on city kids. It seems that bush kids grow up with more of a balanced view of the value of life and are more willing to face the tough things head-on. I don't know what the difference is but I can't help but think that more than anything else, it is from watching how their parents react in difficult situations that prepare them for the challenges ahead.

I am not challenging anything you have said Duncs, more just following on with my thoughts after the ABC Radio discussion.

Cheers mate,

Brett
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Follow Up By: Mark & Jo, S/side, Bris - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:27

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:27
Hello stranger!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Big Woody - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:32

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:32
G'day Jo,

It has been a long time hasn't it. How is everything going with Mark lately?
You must have just arrived home from work have you?

I have been up half the night with a bad headache and so I have put in a pretty big session catching up on some of the forums.

Better start getting ready for work now.

Catch up soon,

Brett
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 09:43

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 09:43
My Dad is very 'matter of fact' (unnervingly so sometimes) and he taught me from when I was old enough to deal with it that there are some bigger things in life that aren't fair, but you just can't change them. A big switch of mindset for a kid, but also a vital one. Kids grow up in a very sanitized and un-real world these days, and as a consequence have troubles dealing with life on many fronts.

He also taught me it was OK to kill things provided you will eat them or they will eat you. To this day I don't have a problem shooting or fishing 'for the pot' but won't kill anything just for 'sport'.
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Reply By: Mark & Jo, S/side, Bris - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:45

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 07:45
All is good Deisel. It rips my heart out to see any animal suffer being the animal lover I am. Forever finding dumps and strays, bring them home, get them fit and healthy and find them loving homes.
I'll never forget once I pulled into the servo and noticed these 3 birds just fully picking on the weaker one. Started to cry, filled up car. Pulled over to get a closer look cause he wouldn't fly off. They had plucked his feathers out of one wing, and pecked at his head so much he was coverered in blood and one eyes was swollen shut. I got him and he didn't even try to get away reckon he knew I was trying to help. Took him to the 24hr vet.
Another time I was pulling out of servo and I noticed all the cars in the right and lane where moving around something then hook back into the lane. Road clear I walked over and couldn't beleive what I was seeing. Someone had hit this beautiful cat, I saw another car run over him and he was still alive barely. We are talking jaw realigned, eyes hanging out, you know what I'm saying. I stopped all the traffic while I picked him him, he was fitting and knew he was dying without a doubt, I was an absolute basket case, I am a cat lover and to see that, that no one stopped, it was morning peak hour, and even when I stopped all the traffic not one person got out and seen If I needed any help at all.
I walked over to the footpath and there was a big over hanging tree. by the time I got there the cat had died and my heart broke. I stood there just not knowing what to do. Houses on one side of the road, 3 blocks of units on the other side. Do I door knock and then have someone devasted because they knew their cat got run over and the sight of the cat, or do I hide the cat under the tree, ring the pound for them to collect the cat and let whoever the owner was just think that their cat ran away. I ended up choosing the latter, what if it was a little girls cat, or an elderly persons companion? I really really struggled with what to do. I put myself in the position that if it was one of my cats it would devastate me to see them like that and would I prefer to just believe that they found a new home. After all that I arrived home sobbing my heart out, and stayed on the lounge chair all day thinking and crying, One of my cats (that was not so affectionate at the time) as soon as I was on the lounge curled up to me and did not move the whole day, it was like somehow it knew.
You did the right thing and I hope to God I am never put in that position.

Cheers
Jo
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:53

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:53
you remind me of the cat owners i had an experience with a few years back. I was driving out to the pistol club and came accross a kitten rabbit. I picked it p to feed to the caretakers cat. I used to live at the PC and knew the new caretakers had a cat that had killed every damn animal that i had protected by shooting ferals on the pc surrounds.
I dropped the kitten on the ground and as the owner was saying the age oldcat lover diatripe "my cat never kills anything it is well fed and cared for"
The cat wresteled its way out of her arms , jumped down, broke the rabbits neck and ran off with it.
I can come up with many simular examples. but bottom line is animal lover and cat owner are an oxymoron statement- you cant be both!
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Reply By: Member - Barry M (NSW) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 10:48

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 10:48
You did what had to be done. Well done. As a farmer of ,well many years, I have had to dispose of hundreds of assorted animals & it certainly holds no fears or
trauma for me, but shooting your best dog when the time comes is not easy, but
you do it, & life goes on. Shooting a couple of hundred burnt sheep isnt all that
exiting either, but necessary.
To leave a badly injured animal to suffer is not the way of rural folk, but can be
a difficult decision for others. If you cannot do the job youself you may be able to
enlist the help of passers by. Be very careful when approaching a wounded animal,
many will kick or bite or scratch & you can be injured. If you have no choice,
strike swiftly with maximum force, & tell yourself you have done the right thing,
because you have......oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:05

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:05
BarryM, it was not a problem for me but in a previous post I couldn't find on this topic, there were people suggesting it shouldn't be done because of rules and regulations. This was a case in point and no matter how illegal it was, I have no doubt it was clearly the right course of action.
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Reply By: Member - Russell H (WA) - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:09

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:09
For those that did see the previous thread about this, there was considerable discussion about the use of guns to do the "despatching". I live and work in the country and come across this scenario frequently and for that reason I started carrying a rifle with me.

The reason I chose to use a gun is that I was nearly speaking in a much higher voice after a wounded 'roo kicked at me and just missed the family jewels. At the time I was trying to get into position to dong it on the head with a hammer. Now I also use it to get a nice feral nannygoat for tucker on properties where I have permission.

When the missus and I leave on our great Oz trek two months from now the gun will be with us. We have sold everything so we won't have a place to leave it. To this end we are having a properly designed and constructed gun-safe made for "Farty" (our vehicle).

People have pointed out that we won't be able to take the gun into National Parks, but we won't have a choice so I guess we'll have to take the chance and see what happens.

The gun will be used for humaley despatching injured animals and if we get to know any property owners, we'll use it for a bit of food gathering as well.
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:31

Friday, Mar 23, 2007 at 11:31
Nicely put, I completely agree with you.

Also have fun on the trek with trusty old Farty;-)))
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