Range Rover TDV6, 2.7lt Diesel

I think that buying a Range Rover is a life experience, sort of like owning a Rolls Royce. It's something a lot of people might want to do at least once if you like the look, feel and atmosphere that surrounds the car. They are a nice ride and very classy. But, there are a lot of factors that make them expensive. The electrics are unbelievable, they usually have big wheels that require relatively rare expensive tyres and I'm told that on some models you have to lift the body off to change the injectors. Better get clarification on that last one. Having said all that, I know quite a few later model Land Rovers with over 200K on the clock with no major dramas. All the info is on aulro.com.

What do you want to do with it?
I reckon the Range Rover is the only 4WD that I have ever heard of that was named as not suitable for the Simpson.
Those low profile tyres would need to go.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome

It is a shame you get so many people on here who have no idea what they are talking about.

Firstly a 2.7 Range Rover will be a Range Rover Sport not a Range Rover which is a completely different car.

Standard wheels/tyres are 18" the same as a 200 series but you can put 17" wheels on so there is plenty of tyre options - that have decent profiles.

The 2.7 is a great engine (same as in the Territory, Jaguar, Citroen and Peugeot). Its main problem like many CRDs are the EGRs.

Gearboxes are great but need an oil change about every 80,000km and changing to a metal sump makes servicing easier,

The suspension compressor is should really be a serviceable but it is not so fails around 80,000km - the dealer will charge an arm and leg to change but it is easy to do - the new AMK compressor is much better than the old version.

Fuel capacity is about 85 litres - a bit low but aux tanks are available of about 90 to 120litres but you have to move the spare - a Disco wheel carrier will fit but does not look good on a RRS.

Doscovery ARB and OL Bull bars fit but these companies will not compliance them for the RRS - so on your own back if you get one fitted.

The RRS is shorter and has a shorter wheel base than the equivalent Discovery. Also because of the shape of the rear - rear luggage space is not as usesful (is smaller) that a Disco or 200 series with 3rd row seats moved.

Plan on buying a codes reader as these allow you manage the computer systems. The issues most people talk about arise because owners do not take the time to properly learn about their vehicles. There is a story of one being tilt trayed because the electronic hand brake was on and would not come off - the owner had not taken the time to learn that under the center console there is a cable that is pulled.

They are a fine vehicle but if you value storage in the back I would go for a Disco 3 or 4.

Garry

One Range Rover (TDV8 My08 L322) I know in Qld has done the Simpson - towing. A Quantum caravan. Gulp!

There are those who, with little experience or first hand knowledge, bag these vehicles.
All they have heard is that a friends uncles friends cousin has had a bad experience with some Landrover. No specifics of course.
Take the time and drive one for a start, and go to AULRO which is the Landrover forum and see there. There are D3 and Range Rover Sports which have over 300,000 km without dramas, just normal servicing. Make your mind up on facts, not hearsay. I am one very happy D4 owner.

I think the biggest single feature you have to look for, with high-range, high-tech used vehicles, is how many are for sale just out of the warranty period.

Range Rovers seem to feature largely in this group. Of course, it may be that the demographics of most new Range Rover owners is that they turn over their vehicles very regularly, and they do so, because they can afford to.
Most Range Rovers, as we all know, rarely get off the blacktop. They are loved by the Toorak Taxi set, by the wealthy mothers who need a status symbol to run the kids to school.

Having said that, that does usually make for a wider choice of better-condition vehicles when looking for a used one - and it does seem there are plenty to choose from.

The 2.7L V6 diesel engine is a joint Ford-PSA product that is particularly high tech, in the best European fashion. The engine is produced in many factories around the world, and fitted to a wide range of vehicles. Many specific engine components of the 2.7 are built in Ford South African factories and then shipped to other global factories for final assembly. Here's the main users of that engine.

2004 Jaguar S-Type
2005 Land Rover Discovery
2005 Land Rover Range Rover Sport
2005 Peugeot 607
2005 Peugeot 407 Coupe
2006 Peugeot 407
2006 Jaguar XJ
2006 Citroen C6
2007 Jaguar XF
2008 Citroen C5
2011 Ford Territory

Note that each vehicle uses a specifically-modified engine for the application. The Range Rover engine has specific variations in design over the other 2.7 engine users, typically such as a larger sump.

There are reports of a number of problems with the 2.7 engine. Most appear to be related to oil issues. The originally recommended service interval of 24,000kms appears to be too long to me, and is probably behind some of the engine failures. My personal opinion is that no diesel, particularly a high-tech one, should have engine oil changes this far apart.

The 2.7 engine uses bearings that have no locating tabs. The bearing shell is merely clamped by the conrod bolts. This smacks of cheapness in design, because bearing shell tabs have been an integral part of engine design for over 80 years.

This tabless design leads to bearing shells spinning inside the cap when lubrication becomes less-than-perfect.
This is typical of high-tech engines, they are called high-maintenance engines, because they are finicky with their required operating parameters. Let the oil get dirty and thick, and they will fail, because they can't cope with it.

Low-maintenance engines have much wider parameters of operation, they can cope with all types of poor maintenance and poor operating conditions.

The other problem areas with the 2.7 engine is in the variable vane turbocharger. The variable vane turbocharger is a very high-tech device that performs better with an increased ability to change to varying operating conditions, than a bog-standard, fixed vane turbocharger.

However, the finicky little moving components that operate the movement of the vane angle become clogged with carbon and other combustion deposits after around 100-150,000kms and then they start to fail.
Naturally, they then need to be replaced at high cost.

The 2.7 engine needs a range of special tools to repair it, such as the Ford timing tool.

Camshafts and crankshafts have been known to fracture, due to the high-tech, lightweight design, where weight was pared from the engine to produce a low engine operating weight (202kg) that was low enough to ensure that it could be fitted to many smallish sedans.

Other problems reported with the 2.7 engine are EGR problems (common with many newer high-tech engines, and also related to carbon buildup causing clogging of the EGR operation), particulate filters that cost a fortune to replace, injector and glow plugs failures, and intercooler failures.

Range Rover design is such that to remove the engine totally, for major repairs, requires removal of the body.

The following websites provide some insight into the 2.7 engines, where owners, repairers and potential owners discuss problems associated with the engine.

2.7L V6 Ford-PSA engine problems - Poland

The South Africans have had some 2.7 engine problems that appear to be maintenance and oil related. Once again, high-tech engines don't do well in harsh conditions and where maintenance is lax.

2.7 engine failures - South Africa

The Range Rover is a particularly comfortable vehicle that offers a "driving experience" that appeals to a certain demographic of people. There is also the status angle of driving a Range Rover that appeals to numbers of people.

However, buying a used high-tech vehicle such as the vehicle you're looking at, requires careful scrutiny of the level of maintenance and the style of use that it has endured.
It's highly likely you will find a very nice example, that has been well-maintained and only lightly used.

Against that is the knowledge that you must always keep in mind, that these vehicles are complex, high-tech, and very expensive to repair once they get high kms on them - and if you have no warranty to cover any unforeseen failures - be they mechanical or electrical - then you will be facing some heavy slugs to the wallet, when they happen.

Good luck with your search - a vehicle choice is a personal one, and one that we make according to our personal needs and requirements, and very often, how we wish to project our image.

Cheers, Ron.

Any modern CRD can have issues. Todays diesels arent like the old ones that chugged along for years without any maintainance.

Just have a look at prado and newhilux forums where owners are replacing $$$$$ sets of injectors every 100k or the pistons crack, or the seals leak and clog the oil pickup ( resulting in a seized motor)

or read about the V8 diesels choking on dust and water due to poor design of filter systems. Then the manufacturer blames dirty fuel or air filter and wants $12000 to fix.

Many owners of modern 4x4s carry a plugin code reader , simple to use read and reset any codes. I even bought one for my forester and have techstream to fix my prado.

Be aware this is just a forum ( and a very good one, most of the time) and often people have very focused opinions because of what the own. Have a search of some users names and you sometimes see a pattern.

good luck and enjoy whatever you purchase.

I am not saying RR are better or worse than any other brand, i know people with both toyotas and land rovers--- plenty of kms and few issues from both.

The DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) is a particular problem on many current vehicles, and there's a roaring trade in removing DPF's and re-mapping the ECU to remove all DPF electronic control inputs and logs.

The Ford-PSA 2.7L engine is one of the engines known to have DPF problems.

With the DPF system, additional fuel is injected on the exhaust stroke, after the initial combustion has taken place, to increase EGT (exhaust gas temperature) to extremely high levels.
This process is referred to as "post-injection pulses" by Seimens.
The DPF cleaning process takes place approximately every 500-1000kms and is designed to burn off the soot particles that have accumulated in the DPF, which would otherwise clog the DPF.

This pollution control system is less-than-perfect, and it has been referred to as a failed technology.
However, it's still in wide fitment and useage amongst many European and even American diesels.

The problem with this "post-injection pulse" process is that it leads to excess unburnt fuel in the cylinder which promptly goes past all the rings and builds up in the sump. This is known as "crankcase oil dilution" and is a serious problem.
COD leads to oil that has reduced lubrication properties, because it is thinned with fuel.

It has been known about since the days of kerosene-powered engines of the 1920's, as kerosene doesn't burn fully in IC engines and causes high levels of COD.
Thus oil changes had to be much more frequent when running the old engines on kerosene.

All engine manufacturers have an acceptable maximum engine operating level of COD, as measured by the % of fuel in the lubricating oil, measured by oil analysis in a lab.

High tech engines such as the Ford-PSA 2.7L engine would be highly susceptible to COD, because they are operating within tight parameters.
Even a small reduction in lube oil lubricating properties, caused by COD, would almost certainly result in engine damage, such as the 2.7L engine bearing damage shown in the sites I linked to above.

As a result, it would be wise to do very frequent oil changes and perhaps even establish a regular oil analysis program for your engine oil, if you're running a Ford-PSA 2.7L engine, or any engine fitted with DPF regeneration.

This would be even more important once the engine has high kms on the clock, when clearances are increased, and the oil is working harder to counter the increased amount of contaminants coming past the worn rings.

Cheers, Ron.

Zappa

Do yourself a massive favour , Don't buy the Range Rover , Every 4x4 will give you trouble at some stage, but a Toyota will give you a better chance at trouble free motoring.

Thanks for everyones input. Not sure whether I'll buy the Rangey, but I do love em to look at! Thanks for all the "Tech Talk" but wasted on me as my mechanical knowledge stops at oil & filter change. I have been driving company vehicles for the past 30 years and apart from tyres,servicing and brakes I've very rarely had any further work done for sometimes up to 220,000 klms on Ford factory vehicles so I was expecting to pay 50K plus for a 4x4 and get similar trouble free motoring.
Thanks again

The 2.7L diesels from memory had an issue with the timing belt tensioner. It's mounted to the oil pump were known for breaking, requiring an updated component to be fitted (from memory, this particular item was fairly reasonable at $150ish)

I dare say most would have had this done by now, but just something to ponder.