Name Derivation - Chili Beach and Portland Roads

G'day Heather

Just a bit more continuing lack of information in the follow-ups below.

Cheers
John

G'day Heather

one possible answer in my reply to myself at the end of this Thread

Cheers
John

G'day Tony,

and thanks, but damn - you are forcing me back into the Chinese in Australia websites. Lots of reading but few leads! Perhaps I should searching again 'Chinese and goldfields and Chilli and Cape York'.

Seems Captain Cook named Weymouth Bay, of which Portland Roads is a part, and Weymouth Bay is on the Queensland Place Name Register. There is a connection between surveyor Edmund Kennedy, whose ill-fated expedition passed through Weymouth Bay in 1848, and that is that on arrival in Australia in 1840, Kennedy's first job was at Portland Bay in Victoria. That's a pretty long bow to draw though.

Threads on this site quickly disappear, so this one seems to have drawn a blank again. I really appreciate your continued interest and the market garden theory, but I'm not convinced yet.

Cheers
John

G'day again Tony

I meant to add that the Australian Place Name Survey tell me that there are 5000000 place names in Australia, and only 300000 have been formally identified in terms of who named them and why.

Cheers
John

And again Tony

Could be time to retreat! Received the following today from the Ranger-in-Charge at Iron Range NP:

"I have been the Ranger-in-Charge at Iron Range since August 2009 and have tried to find the origins of the name Chili Beach. Unfortunately I have not found any information after consulting with the traditional owners and other long time occupants of the area. I also can not help you in regards to the name Portland Roads. Did you try the cafe owner at Portland Roads Greg Westacott? He has a good knowledge of the area. Sorry I could not be of more help."

Cheers
John

John - The ranger I spoke too would have been there between 2000 and 2004 - This was the times I was up there supervising the maintenance of the roads.

I did quite a bit of searching on the net re this and found nothing else.

So it may be a put to bed idea :-)

If not I am sure you will find a link somewhere to someone who knows

Regards Tony

Hi, We are caretakers at the Portland Roads Beach Shack.
I will see what I can find out for you, we have just been here since September 2010 are still learning about the place. The Roadstead theory sounds good though, since it fits the description as a safe port and was used to transport gold from Iron Range.

Whenever we give out our address it take a bit to convince people that it is Roads not Road.

I would be interested to know more about the chinese markets as well
Thanks Cate

Hi, We are caretakers at the Portland Roads Beach Shack.
I will see what I can find out for you, we have just been here since September 2010 are still learning about the place. The Roadstead theory sounds good though, since it fits the description as a safe port and was used to transport gold from Iron Range.

Whenever we give out our address it take a bit to convince people that it is Roads not Road.

I would be interested to know more about the chinese markets as well

You prompted me to do a google search,
Here are some great photos of Portland Roads and Iron Range in the 40s and 60s


Thanks Cate

Thanks Cate

Most of the info I have is contained in the various posts above and below. I emailed Greg Westacott yesterday.

I've no doubt the 'Roads' bit refers to the safe anchorage, it's just a matter of when it was so named and why 'Portland'. Signage at the Lockhart River airfield suggests that it was named before the US military presence in WW2, and signage at Portland Roads itself doesn't provide an answer. I like the Edward Kennedy connection with Portland Bay in Victoria, but I doubt that that is the answer.

As for Chili Beach - who knows.

Cheers
John

I'd hate to think how many times you'd have to explain how to get there -

"Just go to the end of Portland Roads Road".

"Have you got a stutter ??? I assume you mean the end of Portland Road"

...or writing out the full address.

10 Portland Roads Road
Portland Roads
Qld.

Is that more of a problem than for those living in "1770" ????

G'day Folks

Hopefully this follow up goes to everyone. See my reply to my original question at the end of this Thread regarding an answer to the Portland Roads name.

Cheers
John

G'day Mike

Thanks. Given that 'Roads' seems to me to be more of an American term than Australian, and given the large US presence in the area during WW2, I have previously done some limited searching in that area. Plenty of references to Portland Roads, but none regarding its naming.

Cheers
John

Sailors were an international community - I don't understand why Roadstead is American ?

And you'd be correct Mike - googling indicates one site that says the first known use of roadstead was 1556, and other googling suggests that it was called Portland Roads before WW2.

Cheers
John

Looking at the map, Portland Roads would provide shelter from Southerlies, but not much else.

But another major factor for a good Roadstead was quality of the bottom, where anchors would provide good hold in a storm, yet not foul the anchor.

An anchor weighing several tons would not be cheap to replace and look poorly on the Captains record.

On the "far" side of the world, losing an anchor that had fouled on rocks and having to cut the cable, would be a disaster, putting the ship at risk during later storms due to having one less anchor.

If you zoom in on the map at this link - Portland Roads - by sliding the zoom slider to the right, you will see that Portland Roads is in the ocean - it's not a reference to a land feature.

I'm assuming that Portland Roads is a standard chart abbreviation for Portland RoadsTEAD.

Sailors were heavily into abbreviations - if you pronounced "Top-gallant-sail" to a square-rig sailor as it's written, you'd get a big laugh - it's always pronounced t'ga'n's'l !!!

Here are some historical pictures that I found

Portland Roads Jetty in 1966 looking towards the sea
Portland Roads Jetty looking towards land

and see the photo of what it looks like now, from the Beach Shack
Image Could Not Be Found
I am no sailor but we are fairly sheltered
- inside the Breat Barrier Reef,
- little islands and hills give shelter
- prawn trawlers anchor here most of the season,
- there used to be gold from Iron Range shipped from the jetty, in the 1800s,
- in WWII 5000 american troupes were stationed here.

The exploroz map doesn't look right, we are just near Rocky Island, so the spot that says Cape Weymouth,
See the Portland Roads Beach Shack entry for gps location

Sorry I meant to post this photo
Image Could Not Be Found
So that you can see the lay of the land and the revegetation

I have just looked at our map, which is 1:50,000 and we are on Weymouth Bay
and the exploroz coordinates are correct

and luckily our address is Ayland Hills Road, or The Esplenade, rather than Portland Roads, Portland Road.

Still you need to go down Portland Road to get to Portland Roads, though out here you don't need to take much notice of the name of the road, there are not a lot to choose from.

If we do phone shopping we do have to spell Roads a few times.

and go figure our mailbag goes to Lockhart River which Australia Post calls Lockhart.

Thanks Cate

I've fired off an email to Warwick Willmott, the guy who took the 1966 picture. He's a geologist, apparently from the University of Queensland, and he's also a member of the Geological Society of Australia.

I might get lucky.

Cheers
John

Great photos from 1966, I didn't realize that the jetty was that substancial with the shed etc at the end of it.

When was it last used and when was it removed or just fell into disrepair and destroyed.

BTW Do you know how much water is in the Pascoe along Frenchman's

Thanks

Bruce
Fallbrook CA

I don't know how much water but the road in from the development road is impassable anyway until the end of the wet season so I would imagine it would be impassable as well.

I suppose you know that it is challenging at the best of times.

and I don't know when the jetty disappeared, I heard there was a house there as well, sitting out over the water
By the way it is a registered port

"Astrolabe Roadstead was named after an early French explorer’s corvette, the Astrolabe. Captain Dumont D'Urville travelled around the region in 1827. "

From Astrolabe Fashions - I was searching for "Roadstead" when I found this - NOT girls in bikinis !!!! Honest ~!!!

Mikey???? A welcome distraction nevertheless

Thanks Pedro

Someone must have the answers

Cheers
John

G'day Pedro

see www.australiaoncd.com.au/discovery/names6.html

Seems probable that Portland Roads derives from Portland Reef named by Matthew Flinders after the Secretary of State for the Colonies, William Portland

Had a look at websites for nee - one suggestion is that its a yam paste used in cooking. Chilli Nee might be a chilli paste.

Cheers
John

Where is Portland Reef?

G'day Pedro

Did the library search turn up anything?

Cheers
John

oops

www.australiaoncd.com.au/discovery/names6.hgtml

G'day Cate

The correct spelling was my first question. Various maps and guide books vary between Chili and Chilli. According to the Queensland Department of Environment and Resource Management, Chili is the correct spelling. Establishing that was the easy bit as you can see from all the replies on this Thread.

I haven't heard yet from Greg Westacott from Out of the Blue cafe.

Currently we have two possible explanations for Portland Roads, and two for Chili Beach. In both cases there is probably not enough evidence to satisfy the formal criteria of the Australian Place Name Survey team, but enough to say "some people say this place was named because . . ."

Cheers
John

The Portland Roads in England, is the safe harbour area between the Isle of Portland near Weymouth Bay. The other side of Portland Island was treacherous with many shipwrecks.

"To protect ships from vicious storms Victorian engineers devised a scheme to turn the Portland Roads into a "harbour of refuge." The result was two great stone breakwaters sweeping northeast from the Isle of Portland. Built between 1848 and 1872 they created the largest deep water port in Europe. Later, after 1900, two more arms were added to completely enclose the harbour. The majority of the Breakwaters were built by convicts and a staggering 5,731,376 tons of stone had been taken from Portland Quarries in order to build the breakwaters. H.R.H Prince Albert laid the foundation stone of the first Portland Breakwater in the twelfth year of the Queen Victoria's reign"

Weymouth England - visitor site

and more...

Portland with its rocky coastline on its western side culminating at Portland Bill meeting the several currents in the notorious Portland Race, make for some of the most dangerous conditions of the coastline of England.

Yet Portland also provides a safer haven. Its eastern side, the Portland Roads, is a natural shelter of the Channel from the South Westerly winds that are so frequent here. It offers a protective arm of safety around the ships that seek shelter from the rough and stormy seas in Lyme Bay

Weymouth Portland Shipwrecks
http://www.weymouth-dorset.co.uk/shipwrecks.html

The Portland Roads Hotel got it`s name from Portland Ports shipping channels, known as `The Roads`. It`s full of character offering hearty food at prices that won`t rock the boat.
The Roads has a well stocked bar. Live entertainment including sports. Cafe Restaurant. Sunny Tropical Beer Garden and 12 comfortable rooms. En suites available

note the Beer Garden is Tropical!!! in England

Cook named the Isle of Portland in NZ after the Isle of Portland in UK

CAPTAIN COOKS LOG OF NZ

This Island I have named Isle of Portland, on account of its very great resemblance to Portland in the English Channel. It lies about a mile from a Point on the Main, but there appears to be a ledge of Rocks extending nearly, if not quite, aCross from the one to the other.

He did name Weymouth but it was assumed it was because of Viscount Weymouth not the place name, he doesn't actually say.

"On the Mainland within us was a pretty high promontary, which I called Cape Weymouth (Latitude 12 degrees 42 minutes South, Longitude 217 degrees 15 minutes); and on the North-West side of this Cape is a Bay, which I called Weymouth Bay.*
(* Viscount Weymouth was one of the Secretaries of State when the Endeavour sailed.)"

They were nearly shipwrecked on the way through the reef at Providential Channel, he wrote this when in Weymouth Bay

"It is but a few days ago that I rejoiced at having got without the Reef; but that joy was nothing when Compared to what I now felt at being safe at an Anchor within it. Such are the Visissitudes attending this kind of Service, and must always attend an unknown Navigation where one steers wholy in the dark without any manner of Guide whatever. Was it not from the pleasure which Naturly results to a man from his being the first discoverer, even was it nothing more than Land or Shoals, this kind of Service would be insupportable, especially in far distant parts like this, Short of Provisions and almost every other necessary. "

Still he doesn't mention Portland Roads
I am getting carried away with this,

Weymouth married, in May 1759, Elizabeth Cavendish Bentinck, elder daughter of the second Duke of Portland

I better stop!

Thanks Alan

Two emails today, one from the Ranger in Charge of Iron Range NP, who says that she has spoken to local aboriginals and they confirm that there was a Chinese market garden at the Chili Beach location. The second from Warwick Wilmott, who took the 1968 photo of Portland Roads jetty provided by Cate from the Portland Raods shack who says that he does not recall Chili Beach being so named when he was there mapping in 1967.

Do we trust the bird watchers??!!

Cheers
John

May not be relevant but Chili Beach has a tree with red seed pods containing husky almond-like seeds.


Chili Beach has an extensive dune system that rises up to 40 metres above sea level and is cloaked with evergreen notophyll vine forests. In places this vine forest replaces a grassy eucalypt forest that was maintained by Aboriginal fire management until about 60 years ago.

Coconut palms, relatively recent intruders in this landscape, fringe the foreshore at Chili Beach. They possibly resulted from the increased European activity in the area and the corresponding halt in fire management. The dunes at the southern end of Chili Beach are stabilised only by low-growing groundcover plants such as goatsfoot (Ipomoea pes-caprae). They are vulnerable to damage from vehicles and people.
The coastal plants along the foreshore include the sea almond with its distinctive red seed pods containing husky almond-like seeds, beach callophyllum (Calophyllum inophyllum) with its twisted, gnarled trunk and low, horizontal branches and the beautiful river lily (Crinum pedunculatum).

Hemmings log entry is long after Kennedy's expedition
There are some mention of logs of Kennedy's expeditions and maps of the time discussed on t=521Cape York Forums

I had a look at the NARRATIVE OF AN EXPEDITION UNDERTAKEN UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE LATE MR. ASSISTANT SURVEYOR E. B. KENNEDY (1849) by the botanist William Carron, it doesn't mention Portland Roads by name. I didn't read the whole thing but I found reference to Restoration Island when Carron was going back to find the remains of the expedition. It shows that Kennedy's journals were lost.

Thanks Cate

I'll follow that up. I think I need to trawl Queensland university History departments to see if anyone has done a PhD on your region.

I'm assuming you talk regularly with Greg from Out of the Blue cafe. I get emails from him outside of this exploroz forum.

Cheers
John