Spare Tyres

Submitted: Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 08:57

ThreadID: 43645 Views:3784 Replies:10 FollowUps:17

This Thread has been Archived

Wayne (NSW)

I have just been scrolling through some of the posts and with the outback touring season just about to start, I am amazed by the number of people taking a tyre only as a second spare.

Now I know that if we have good tyres and run at the correct tyre pressure, what ever that is, and don't speed or over load the vehicle we should not have use of any spare tyres. I also know that it does not work that way. If they made tyres that are puncture proof why do vehicles have a spare in the first place.

There are a couple of things that really concern me.

1. The second spare is a different size to what is on the vehicle. Not only in width but in rolling diameter.

2. The spare is a different type of tyre, skinny tyres don't go with wide radials.

3. A mud tyre mixed with a all terrain don't go together.

4.The spare with only a mm of thread left on it.

5.Do you have all the tools and know how to use them, to remove and replace the tyre, tyre leavers, bead breakers, rubber hammer and a good tyre pressure gauge.

6. And there is the classic. A tyre which probably falls into one of the above that has to mounted onto a rim when required.

For this to happen the old tyre first has to be removed from the rim. This is not as easy as it looks. Just try and take a tyre off a rim at home, and remember that the tyre at home would not be ripped or the side wall blown out.

Chances are that if you do get a blow out it is because the tyre has been slowly going down, over heats and blows the side wall out. The vehicle is now running on the rim and by the time you realise this, the rim is now bent out of shape. This happens to a steel rim, a alloy rim could easy chip of crack. At least with a steel rim it can be knocked back into shape, if you have a big enough steel hammer.

After the old tyre has been removed the spare then has to be fitted to the rim. This is not as bad as removing the tyre but it still takes some practise. The Tanami Track is not the place to practise how to remove and replace a tyre.

The tyre is now back on the rim, if a tube has been fitted correctly a good air compressor will inflate the tyre, but like most we run tubeless tyres. The air compressor now has to have enough volume to re seat the tyre. There have been a few post about using all sorts of explosive material to re seat the tyre, again unless you know what you are doing you just might have more that a flat tyre.

The tyre is now on the rim and inflated to the correct pressure and assuming that it is the same type, size and tread pattern as the rest of the tyres on the vehicle, how are you going to balance the tyre.

You could drive at 40 kph to stop the vehicle from shacking to bits, but that is going to be a long day after you have repaired the tyre.

A spare is not a spare if it can not be used safely. It should be the same and as good as what you are driving on.The weight of the rim and tyre should not stop you from taking the second spare. I would rather take one less carton of beer than to leave home with a spare that was not mounted on a rim.

Also remember if you do happen to destroy a tyre and have to change it, take the old tyre back with you . Don't leave it on the side of the road.

Wayne

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator Share

Reply By: Vince NSW - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:38

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 09:38

Thanks Wayne
You have just tipped the scales for me. I was toying with the idea but have now dummped the idea. I have all the tools needed and have changed enought tyers / rims to know what it is like, but now will carry the secon spare set up on the rim
Vince

AnswerID: 229763

Reply By: Member - Duncs - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:41

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 10:41

Wayne,

You make a good point but I wonder if you go far enough. I wonder if tyres are just the tip of the iceberg here.

Many people who frequent this forum are fairly seasoned outback travellers, many live and work in "remote" places and do this stuff on a day to day basis.

As most regulars know I have recently moved back to Sydney after living in Broken Hill for a few years. Most of my friends in Broken Hill saw Kinchega, Mootawinge, Milparinka even Tiboobura and Camerons Corner as day trips and we often went there "without thinking" and I may well have been guilty of portraying this as a simple day trip.

On returning to Sydney I find that the majority of my friends are amazed at that. Firstly to drive 300km round trip for a day out scares most of them, but out in the desert where there is limited help if anything should go wrong? This rightly concerns the majority of them. It's the ones it doesn't seem to worry that bother me. I wonder how many of this type of person are reading posts here and thinking "well if they can do it so can I".

When I went on one of these "day trips" I would take, food and water, a comprehensive tool kit (and the skill to use most of it) and communications capable of calling for should the need arise. I was also expected home at the end of the day and if I didn't show up someone would call for help. Most importantly I knew where I was going and what to expect.

I think there is a real danger in making things sound easy. Years ago a friend of a friend asked me to tell them how to get to Lake Eyre. They had just bought a new Prado, upgraded from a 2wd Saab and wanted to see the water in the lake. I refused to "tell them how to get there". Might have sounded a bit mean but I figured that if they could not even find a map and interpret it to find the place they were no where near ready for a trip like that. I suggested they do some research try a couple of shorter trips closer to civilisation and in the company of others with some experience Then plan to visit Lake Eyre when they knew what they were doing.

I wonder if sometimes we provide info here for people we know making it sound easy to casual observers who have no idea. I then wonder how many of them go off and get into trouble because they did not consider many things that "we" take for granted. Maybe we should be more careful.

Anyway I have changed a blown out tyre. I did it in a CP to the amusment of many other guests in the park. Some had seen it or even done it before. Some, like me were seeing it for the first time and were shocked at how difficult, time consuming and energy sapping it was. There are plenty of other things like that, that can and do happen frequently in the bush.

That has got to be nearly 4c worth, sorry.

Duncs

AnswerID: 229776

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:09

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:09

Duncs,

4 cents well spent.

You are dead right. I will not even start with the inappropriate or lack of commutation that I see some drivers with and the lack of knowledge on how to use it and what it can do.

I have been guilty of this "make it sound easy" outback travel, but the amount of research and planning that goes into doing a weekend trip, too the 7 trips and 5 months that I will be on the road later this year is unreal.

It does make it sound easy but that is because of the amount of homework done prior to the trip.

Wayne

FollowupID: 490533

Reply By: Robin - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:07

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:07

One spare has always been enough for me Wayne , but several friends have carried 2nd spare casing only , often on roof or ocky strapped to first spare.

Usually though they have no real intention of changing it themselves , what seems to happen is that spare wheel is used , and when get to service station they can get casing changed without issues of wether a small place has a tyre in stock or paying excessive price.

Robin Miller

AnswerID: 229783

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:22

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:22

Robin,

I wish I had your luck.

Drivers have gone for years without a flat myself included but I have also got 2 flats within 100 meters and this was down in Deua, not far from civilisation but it could have been on the moon if i didn't have the second spare.

Wayne

FollowupID: 490534

Follow Up By: Member - Steve T (NT) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:56

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:56

Hi Guys.

I now run 4 Toyota's and replace my tyres at 75-80% wear, I always keep the casings and use them as spares or run them out on my tour trailers.

All vehicles are 5 stud and so are the trailers, I care one spare on the truck and have 4 spares at a camp ground, so if my guides need a second spare they can pick one up 1/2 way.

On our resent holiday we had new tyres on the truck 1 spare under 1 on top and 1 on the trailer, all tyres being interchangeable.

We did 14000 km and never had to change a tyre, I also took a genset power tools and a welder some people laughed at me.

6 years ago I went to Alice and the rock, when I got back to Alice I needed some welding done, It took him 10 min and he charged me $550 I will never be caught again.

Over kill or being prepared, If your going to put a casing on the roof you might as well put it on a rim.

Just a thought Steve.

FollowupID: 490538

Reply By: Dave198 - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:34

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:34

Good points Wayne. I guess experience with all these things we can see the problems and difficulties.

It's also a case as to where to draw the line too.

I, like Duncs have been guilty of going to those same places he mentioned with no more than a good toolkit and communications. Certainly not thought about taking extra spare tyres or wheels.
Is that because, for us it's considered a local trip up the road? Dunno!

Not so long ago I did one of my many trips down the Barrier Highway to Adelaide and did in 2 tyres on the way.
I certainly hadn't thought of strapping an extra tyre or wheel on for just a 6 hour trip down the highway.
I didn't notice the extra passenger called Murphy in the back either!!!!
Many thanks to a well know good guy down the road for helping me out of that predicament.

That's why I say, where do you draw the line as to what to take, 'just in case'?
Many of us just rely on experience to get us out of a problem situation, certainly be prepared, but where do you stop.

I appreciate that this post is basically about tyres and wheels, but lots of other silly things can impede the forward motion.

But, if we worried about all the potential problems, we would just go on trips within a K or 2 of the dealership and the tyre depot.

Dave

AnswerID: 229790

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:53

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 11:53

Hi Wayne

I think your points are totally valid for the lone traveller.

A well organised group is a different story - we share extra spares where possible to save weight.

AnswerID: 229792

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:44

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 12:44

Phil,

I would agree for a group of mates going away, but that is not always possible.

In July i am taking a convey across the Simpson. I know that I have a 100Series, a Prado, a 78 series(rental), a late model Jeep and my Troopie. There others but not sure what at this stage.

I don,t think that I could swap any spares, or cases, around with the vehicles that I have got.

Wayne

FollowupID: 490545

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:21

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 13:21

Theres a big difference between being a tour operator and being a private person who likes to run trips :-))

FollowupID: 490555

Follow Up By: Member - Steve T (NT) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:12

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:12

Hi Phil G

I'm not sure what your point is, The first part of my post was about my tour operation and how I deal with spare tyres.

The second part was about being on a private holiday and my preparation in regards to spare tyres.

FollowupID: 490561

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:44

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:44

Steve,

I think that Phil was referring to me as I am also in the 4WD tour industry.

Wayne

FollowupID: 490563

Follow Up By: Member - Steve T (NT) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:58

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 14:58

My apologies Phil.

I thought you had the wrong follow up, Please disregard my post.

Cheers Steve.

FollowupID: 490566

Reply By: Willem - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 16:02

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 16:02

Wayne

A good timely post and to the point.

Running split rims and towing a trailer with same size rims and tyres I carry the normal vehicle spare and two tyre casings with tubes and rust guards plus four more tubes. I have all the right tools to change tyres out bush and all the necessary patches. I know how to use all the tools.

Recently I split all the rims, wirebrushed all the rust and repainted them. This is a job one should do at least every twelve months if running splits or steels.

Cheers

AnswerID: 229837

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:49

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:49

Willem,
Do you want to rethink your suggestion about repainting your splits and solid steel rims every 12 months??

FollowupID: 490659

Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:01

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:01

Hail Phil ....man of many talents...lol

Ummm...my experience over the years is that invariably one neglects to do this job until one day you need to split the rim and it is then that you find out that although you have been vigilant, those days of driving on beaches, over salt pans and sloshing through rivers have taken their toll on the rim and it is a bastard to remove as it is rusted on. The older one gets the harder it gets(or should that me the other way around...lol) to split the rims.

So a little bit of preventative maintenance over a summer weekend with the Engel humming closeby with icy cold VB's in it, is a good time to check the rims.

My opinion as usual.

Wot have you got against it??????????

Cheers

FollowupID: 490665

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:12

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:12

Hi Willem,
"Wot have you got against it??????????"

Nothing - if thats how you want to pass the time :-))

I'd suggest every 7-10 years for splits and never for steelies.
If a tubeless rim rusts, its time to replace it.

FollowupID: 490670

Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:28

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 21:28

As said before....... Hail Caesar...Errr Phil

Time is only a perception. How much stuff you cram in to it is up to you.

Some people polish their spotlights twice a week....lol

I will stick to checking my splits.

Cheers

FollowupID: 490676

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 11:49

Wednesday, Mar 28, 2007 at 11:49

I noticed at one place I worked the had a drill permanantly set up wit a wire brush head for the splitts. I have at least 1 out the back that will need a going over before re shedding them as I have left it out with no tyre. I gotta get round to spending the cash on new rags as although now I m in perth and the bush trips are far less frequent the last trip I did a month ago was the Yowie rocks track and have 3 new plugs in the MTR as a result

FollowupID: 491022

Reply By: mythicl - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:45

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 20:45

This post may possibly have been prompted by my posting about Jackaroo tyres. I asked a question yesterday about taking a spare tyre only or a tyre/wheel (as well as a second spare which by the way in the same size, good rubber, balanced but a different tread pattern!). We have now decided to take the two spares and a spare tube in case we really get in trouble. Last trip up north we blew two tyres up - me (slow learner in this case) now drops the PSI off Hwy pressure when on the rough stuff. :0)

I think Wayne had some really good points however I would probably argue the bit about being too carefree with advice. I think people need to take some personal responsibility for preparing themselves and it's not up to the people posting replies to wrap everything up in cotton wool with CAUTION written all over posts. I agree that many people go offroad for the first time with stars in thier eyes and an unreal expectation of what it's all about but reality usually cures them during the first trip. :0) Having said that the odd posting about preparing yourself doen't go astray. An a fellow I used to work with woud say: "Proper preparation prevents bleep poor performance". As true for going bush as it is for most other things.

From someone who has been around the bush a bit but hasn't been off roading that much I would say the best piece or recovery gear you can take anywhere is a bit of common sense and some prior research. Whether your an operator or a weekend warrior those two things will see you in better stead than all the fancy stuff in the ARB shop window.

Anyway - that's my 2 1/2 cents worth - Ill shut up now.... :0)

Cheers
Ross

AnswerID: 229893

Reply By: Member - Brian H (QLD) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:20

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:20

As being, as I call it inexperenced in outback travel I have full intentions of taking two spares on rims, have not considered taking any casings, if I do that I will have to buy something to change a tyre (not that thats a big issue to do) but where do you draw the line. I have plugs and will be getting more before I go later this year.

I don't race on gravel or dirt road just as happy going slower and seeing whats about so im hoping two spares will do the trick. I will have a fairly good box of tricks with spares etc.

I just plan to keep the speed down, drop the pressures and monitor the tyres and pressures at each stop.

I figure the vehicle will have a full service before I go, spares I take and people will know approximate dates of places I will be at, and I will be calling when I arrive as Req. Apart from using CDF i figure i will be fine.

Timely advise is correct from my point of view anyway :)

Brian

AnswerID: 229927

Follow Up By: Col_and_Jan - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:43

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 22:43

Its been a while since I saw reference to CDF. Memories from the old Pussers. Im teaching now, and often see silly things. Once I said that a student needs to use some CDF, and got puzzled looks. Easy to explain the meaning of the phrase, but difficult to spell it out in words, if you know what I mean!
Col

FollowupID: 490703

Reply By: Member - Russell H (WA) - Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 23:53

Monday, Mar 26, 2007 at 23:53

I've read this, and many similar posts recently and a common issue raised is the difficulty in changing a tyre if you carry a carcass rather a complete rim/tyre set-up. I'm not going to enter into the complete spare versus carcass argument. Do whichever you like. Personally, I'm a one spare tyre man.

Want I want to say is this...changing the rubber on a rim is NOT difficult. Sure it is a little time consuming and if you're on a time budget, then consider carrying a complete second spare. But if you're not time constrained, take your time and you can get the job done easily enough. I've done plenty back in the days before I figured out how to conserve my tyres.

Just remember that one of the best tools you have is your vehicle. Want to break the bead on a damaged tyre? Drive over the bugger with your vehicle. Additionally there are many clever tools available now, that at the very least, reduce the energy needed to do the job.

Having said that, I haven't had to do it for a while thanks to a bit of vigilance and the miracle of "plugs". Don't let anybody tell you that plugging tyres is unsafe. Mind you, I'm not advocating attempting to put any more than one plug in a leak. If one plug doesn't seal it then use an internal patch or one of those patch/plug combos that you pull through from the inside of the tyre.

Don't stuff around changing a tyre that has gone flat on you. Find the leak and plug it. I have gone through three sets of A/T tyres in 117,000 Km - well I'm in the process of wearing out the third set of tyres now - and I have not lost a single tyre to blow-outs. The worn out tyres usually have one or two plugs in them, but they lasted through to replacement with plugs still in.

Why, haven't I blown tyres? I think it's because I stop regularly to check my tyres for pressure and heat. I plug them straight away if they are going flat. And I never, ever pressure-down to go over rocky stuff. I don't know who came up with that idea, but in my experience, I lost tyres when I used to pressure-down (mainly because of sliced sidewalls) and I don't now that I keep them hard. There is some theory that sharp rocks will cut through the tread (as opposed to the sidewall) if the tyres are too hard. Well this is not supported by the experience I have had.

This appears to be a thoroughly Western Australian thing as I read on many other forums that a great many people in the Goldfields, Pilbara and Kimberley run 'em hard too, especially in the mines.

I drive on unmaintained tracks in a variety of terrain including extreme rocky stuff, to shale, to pebbles, to sand, and "stick" country for a living and it is not in my best interests to "lose" tyres. So after trial and error, this is what I've come up with and it works for me.

We're about to embark on our great Oz adventure and whilst I would prefer not to take one at all, I will defer to my wife's wishes and carry a spare carcass, but no rim for me. I don't need the extra weight nor the expense of the additional rim. And as the late Uffa Fox said, "weight is only good in steamrollers".

AnswerID: 229940

Follow Up By: Member - Pedro the One (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:14

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:14

Hi Russell ....................

Many valid points there and in the others also ...............

I'm not sure iffen I'm having a blonde moment here, perhaps you can enlighten me ??

"Want to break the bead on a damaged tyre? Drive over the bugger with your vehicle. "

To break that bead : wouldn't your vehicle, with only three wheels, be still up on the jack ?? Or have I missed something ???

A genuine enquiry, this is!

FollowupID: 490901

Follow Up By: Member - Russell H (WA) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:24

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 21:24

Well, I was working on the assumption that you have got a flat tyre, so you have fitted a good spare...and now you're about to fix the crook one! I, for one, wouldn't wait until I was out of good tyres before I started repairing any flat ones. If you do that, you leave yourself without a contigency plan - even if the contingency is to limp to a place where you can buy a new tyre.

FollowupID: 490907

Follow Up By: Member - Pedro the One (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 23:01

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 23:01

Thanks for that ..........

From the sound of your prior post you obviously knew your stuff...... never thought of fixing the wheel there ...........

I normally carry two spare wheels, (three iffen I'm deep in the goldfields) as I'm too unskilled (read old and lazy !!) to try that heavy stuff on the side of a road/track, preferring to do it at camp. With a coldie and sitting on a smallee mound of nuggets !!!!!!

FollowupID: 490924

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 19:51

Tuesday, Mar 27, 2007 at 19:51

Another use for the spare is they make a very stable jacking platform when you need to jack up a chassis for repairs to the suspension, usually in desert country. I have a thick aluminium plate that fits nicely inside a 16 inch wheel.

I slip the wheel under the chassis - usually under the towbar. The plate goes on the flat face of the inside the wheel, and the bottle jack sits nice and stable on the plate. Can also use this method with a highlift jack.

Over the past few years, we've done this for rear spring repairs on a 79series on the Gunbarrel (broken front pin); on a broken rear control rod on a Prado on the Madigan line and on a broken trailer axle on Googs track.

If you're putting your body on the line by having to get under the vehicle, you need all the safeguards you can muster. Once jacked up, we also might put two spare wheels under the chassis to support it in multiple places.

AnswerID: 230092