Hi tech diesels

Ian,
There are many small engines around producing huge amounts of power with considerably high levels of reliability.
The Cosworth engines in the Ford Siera imported into Australia and raced against the V8 super cars was a classic example. The only way the V8 engines could beat them was to ban them. So we no longer see them race.
The ZD 30 has had some probelms, but the thing that got most Toyota owners annoyed, was that there pathetically slow and fuel hungry 1HZ's couldn't see which way they went. I think they were really glad when they started to blow up.
John

Ian,

I think that Nissan should get there act together and produce a 1000cc turbo diesel motor that will blow the socks off the best diesel turbo motor ever put into a 4WD.

Wayne

We lease a VW golf diesel, very powerful for 2L diesel also. It's great, and it's for the city and major hwy's etc. I'm pretty sure it will not have same engine life as a 4.2 nissan or landcruiser. I don't need a high specific output engine for my 4wd, just something un-stressed that is simple and can be worked on. Horses for courses.

Ian. I dont think the blowing up of the zd30 nissan was any real fault of the actual engine mechanicals. I have a friend who's engine holed pistons at 70000km. (2003mod.)
The internals of that motor were in perfect condition, no cylinder bore damage, as new big ends, mains etc., it simply holed 2 pistons. Now if you consider the reciprocating mass of the engine to be one thing, and the electronically controlled fuelling a separate issue, then there is something to point a finger at.
These engines have total electronic control over turbo boost and fuel injection rate. There is no waste gate to control boost pressure, only electronics. In fact some owners with boost guage have reported (on this forum) boost figures approaching 25psi. Now if the electronics say that it needs fuel to match those boost levels something is going to be mightily stretched.
The Europeans have these systems far better sorted out, Nissan failed in this regard.

Nissan`s 3lt is not hi tech, nor does it produce much power. Merc diesels %iss all over them 160kw 510 nm out of their 3lt.

It appears that readers have chosen to ignore the original post and try to turn it into a Toyota/Nissan thing. I only used the Nissan 3.0 as an example because it has the same power as the Holden. Toyota-- Nissan who gives a sh. What do people think of the small Holden TD?
Ian

I agree with your point Ian. I think that it was an engineering shortcoming that caused the failures and that engineering will progress and we will continue to get more power out of smaller motors. I would imagine that all manufacturers could engineer to a higher level whatever they make - saucepans, kettles, books or cars - and that the durability would improve - but it might be less affordable so they have to make a tradeoff. Sometimes though they cut it a bit fine - like Toyota with my cracked wishbones on the front end.

Andrew

Ian,
I'm with you on this, Some blame Renault for the problem but they are related to Peugeot who produce the 307 hdi 80kw from 1600 cc .I think the astra is a good car but do you think your local holden dealer will be able to service it? Eric

I think your Astra TD would be fine pushing a 1500kg Astra around the streets; But the same motor in a 3000kg Patrol with maybe a 2000kg trailer will be stressed.

I have followed the woes of the zd30 with interest and can't help but compare the patrol with the navara which share the same engine ( navara has no intercooler), they develop 118 and 112 kw's respectivily now look at the weight of the two vehicles....are they asking too much out of the engine for the patrol?
They have reduced the towing capacity somewhat to cope with engine problems and there have been some other mod's as well I believe...what do you all think?

Back to the original posting about small lightweight turbo diesel engines;

The Diamond DA42 Twinstar light twin engine aeroplanes use liquid cooled diesel engines. The specific fuel consumption (SFC) is lower per horsepower hour then petrol fed engines. Some light aircraft diesels use kerosene fuel. The modern digital control systems for engines constantly monitor all the critical temperatures etc. and prevent the engines running at temps and loads that could effect engine life. The reliability of these engines is very high, wonder when we will see some of these developements in the automotive industry.

You cannot beat cubic inches.

End of story.

Thanx guys, the night was very slow with only about 5 or 6 posts total. Needed something to do.
Ian

Hi Ian,

I agree with you entirely, here are some examples of manufacturers’ latest Td engine specs and vehicle weights. All these engines produce their maximum torque at between 1500-2200rpm, and maximum power at between 3000-3600rpm, which seems nicely low for 4wd use.

Jeep Cherokee 3LV6Td 160Kw/510Nm 1985Kg
BMW X5 3LV6Td 150Kw/480Nm 2105Kg
Audi Q7 3LV6Td 171Kw/500Nm 2295Kg
Mercedes ML280 2.8LV6Td 140Kw/440Nm 2185Kg
Mercedes ML320 3LV6Td 165Kw/510Nm 2185Kg

The stated fuel consumption for these is 9-11L/100Km (obviously more under full load); this has been confirmed by reviews in various car magazines. They seem more powerful and efficient than any of the current LC or Patrol engines below, even though the weights are very similar.

Toyota LC78 C/C 4.2S6Td 122Kw/380Nm 1950 (plus tray)
Nissan Patrol C/C 4.2S6Td 114Kw/360Nm 2015 (plus tray)

As far as I know the fuel usage of the Patrol/LC engines is ~14L/100Km, so the fuel saved by the more efficient engines is 3L/100Km, which is perhaps a conservative estimate. Over 300,000Km this is 9,000L, which represents ~$12,000 (depending on fuel prices), - enough to pay for a rebuild ? Personally, I'd be happy to pay for a rebuild after 300,000Km or even less in exchange for the extra power and torque, but I doubt these new engines will fail that quickly.

It certainly looks as though the heavy Japanese 4wd's are ripe for some new engines. The question is - when ?

Cheers,

Nic

Hi PhilG,

Do you know when the new engines will be announced, specifically for the C/C models ?

Cheers,

Nic