Update on 'Dead' Kipor Generator

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 14:51

ThreadID: 40927 Views:11215 Replies:7 FollowUps:22

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Member - Norm C (QLD)

Back in Novemver, I posted about my Kipor 1KVA gennie that had died after about 15 months. Link to thread if interested:
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In summary, it seemed the inverter was stuffed, which is the most expensive part of the gennie. Quote for repair was close to the cost of a new one. Retailer where I bought it was not interested, but at least gave me the mobile phone number for the importers rep in the area.

The importer was Primus. They gave me no assurances, but said they were prepared to have a look at it and give me a response. They have a central service centre in Melbourne.

I took the gennie to a Primus warehouse in Brisbane in early December (waited till we were going that way as it is about an hour from home). I got a call a couple of weeks later from the Melbourne workshop. Apologised for the delay (seems Brisbane waited till they had a full pallet to go to Melbourne). We discussed how I had concluded the inverter was stuffed (had a local generator workshop look at it and that was thier diagnosis). He said he did not have a new inverter, and since my gennie is out of warranty, if would be difficult to order one in. He said that he did have a fairly new Kipor in the workshop with a siezed motor and he would see if he could get the inverter from that.

A couple of days before Christmas he called back to say he had replaced the inverter and that after 20 minutes running under load, it seemed to be working fine. With Christmas on the way, it might be a week or two befor they could get the gennie back to Queensland.

Gennie is now back in Queensland. The Primus salesman who services the Gold Coast will be down my way next week and says he will deliver it for me.

I'm not happy that the gennie died in the first place. Not happy with the retailer who showed no interest. A bit disappointed that it took so long to be resolved.
But overall, I'm very happy that Primus has backed their product and repaired my gennie at no cost to me. Once they had the gennie, their people were helpful and happy to share progress and possible outcomes. I'm also happy that their salesman is going to deliver to save me the 2 hour return trip.

Overall a good outcome.

Kipor has at least 3 importers into Australia. Service and support is a matter for each importer, which is probably not a great set up. But as far as Primus goes as an importer, I'm now happy with their service and back up.

If my view changes once I get the gennie back and give it a work out, I'll let you know.
Norm C

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Reply By: Des Lexic - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 17:22

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 17:22

(seems Brisbane waited till they had a full pallet to go to Melbourne).
Now that doesn't seem to be good for the product name. and it only took a month.
Your retailer sounds like one here. Very happy to endorse the product and take your money but woe betide if you have a problem with it. They simply don't want to know you then.

AnswerID: 213664

Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:32

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:32

Mr Lexic, they obviously have a few repairs with a pallet to go back to Melbourne. I tried to phone your Renmark mate but he didn't answer the eau de cologne

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Reply By: honestjohn - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 21:04

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 21:04

buy a 2kva honda mate problems solved

AnswerID: 213711

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:13

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:13

Um, what problem is that? My Kipor has been fixed.
If I had to buy a new gennie, it would be a Honda, but not a 2KVA. I only need a 1KVA and the space / weight is a bit valuable to waste.

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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 21:49

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 21:49

Hi Norm,
Great to hear you've got a favourable response and a positive result from the importer.
Also great to know that Kipor have at least one reputable importer. (I'm sure given the chance the others are too) Having three importers for a single brand isn't really a desirable scenario. Sort of changes the first question when you're Kipor shopping!!

A couple of things jump out at me from your two posts. (My background is electrical / electronics / industrial process control)

Most obvious is, "Apologised for the delay (seems Brisbane waited till they had a full pallet to go to Melbourne)"
A full pallet from one of the countries smaller capital cities begs the question, How fast could you fill a pallet in Sydney or Melbourne?

In your first post you commented, "I reckon it had 50 to 60 hours of use. That's the frustrating part. We didn't use it a lot. But when you need it, you need it."

No, you didn't use it a lot but you did use it for a respectable time period. 50 to 60 hours isn't trivial in the world of electronics especially from the perspective of a term called "infant mortality" or the probability of early life failure.
What I'm getting at is if you where dead set unlucky and got one of those pieces of electronics that every manufacturer experiences, the ones that suffer "infant mortality" I'd have expected a failure at far less than 50 to 60 hours! More like 5 to 6 hours.

Did your usage pattern change around the time of the failure? More load on the unit? Multiple camp sites powered off it?

Mind you, I'd still expect the electronics to deal with the changed usage pattern in a way that doesn't cause a catastrophic failure.

Another thing I've noted in these generator threads, there are lots of people who claim the inverter for Kipor, Honda, Yamaha and Engel are all made in the same factory and are identical.
The one question I have is, How come Honda are the only purchaser that makes use of the aledged universal inverters ability to parallel outputs? If I was buying an identical inverter to Honda and selling the completed product for less I'd certainly counter point my biggest competitors key strategies wherever possible!

All very interesting these generator threads,

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:26

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 22:26

Usage pattern never changed Geoff. It was only ever used to power 25AMP charger, fridge (occasionally while charging) and occasionally a laptop.

My understanding is all these generators are made at the same factory in China under contract, but all components are not the same. I know a guy (electrical engineer) who has visited the factory. He tells me it is a six or 8 (from memory) floor factory building. They assemble Honda, Yamaha and Kipor (possibly others) in the same factory. Many components are common, but some not and apply to specific gennies.

If the business was to 'steal' the Honda technology where it is more advanced and use it in the Kipor, they would lose the assembly contract for Honda I would think. But through the Honda and Yamaha contracts, they would have learned good manufacturing practice and quality control.

It actually seems to be a good arrangement. It is probably Honda's best chance of not having it's patented technology copied. It also provides excellent manufacturing and technical skills to the Chinese business doing the work.

I knew it wasn't a Honda when I bought it. But at half the price (approx), I thought it was worth a shot.

Just glad to get it fixed without cost. Another couple of years use and it will have done it's job. Sure, some things in the experience were not ideal (retailer response and time taken), but overall I'm satisfied, providing it continues to work OK in the future.

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:18

Saturday, Jan 06, 2007 at 23:18

Hi Norm,
I was just reading my story and your reponse and I truly hope you didn't leave with the opinion I was having a go at your choice.

If your Kipor does 66% of the equivalent Honda's life you are way in front!

To me, if these units are all assembled in the same building and I see no reason to argue with your mate's on site experience then there appears to be two streams of production.

The Kipor and Engel are the larger and heavier of the 1kva units by 1kg (8.5%) and somewhere in the order of 15% by volume.

The Yamaha is a few hundred grams lighter than the Honda and basically identical in dimensions.

Though as you've pointed out, Honda guard their paralleling technology well.

I guess I was just plain old fashioned "thinking aloud" on what I'd noticed about the current crop of inverter generators.

Geoff

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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 09:12

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 09:12

Sounds like a great outcome, I wouldnt be too worried about the 1 month wait to get it to Melb, it was out of warranty and at least they were doing something for you, Just took a watch back and was told 4 months to repair, so I wait.

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Reply By: time waster - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:52

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 10:52

Hi Norm we bought the Kipor camping mate 650w red 9kg jobby in the first few hours of running it would increase revs then almost stall then run again normal on the eco throttle this would then do the same thing every 5mins. Checked fuel supply and that was fine but when the side cover was removed ran fine, starvation of air i could work out. Phoned primus they got me to post it back at there cost i paid for insurance phoned me a couple weeks later said yes there is a problem and sent a new one.
The new has been fine but had an oil leak could not be bothered sending back again so pulled a part and found oil leaking from the low oil sensor switched its a silly o ring removed and gasket good it no leaks now.
Primus came to the party but maybe should have saved longer for honda kipor was$490

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Reply By: Bilbo - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:05

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:05

I've always used Honda gear whenever there is a choice - e.g Kipor vs Honda or Yamaha vs Honda.

My liking for Honda came from a few years a race mechanic in Europe. After looking the insides of a Honda engine and thier motorbikes and comparing the finish, assembly and machining tolerances with other stuff, Honda wins by a light year.

I currently have a Honda 2KV inverter gennie and 2 KV Honda engined genny with an Australian alternator (this is for sale BTW as I never use this one anymore), a Honda Lawnmower- it always starts FIRST TIME!! - a 5 HP Honda engine on a rock crusher and I recently sold my much loved Honda V6 Accord to my son. I really miss that beautiful car. Hondas are just better engineered & manufactured, Up until 2 years ago I had a Honda 350 watt, 2 stroke genny that was a little ripper of a genny that never let me down even after years of service in the bush. I lost that one when it went on fire after a sloppy refuelling - that was my own stupid fault and also quite a story. I nearly blew myself and 3 camper trailers up!!

I've had Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh ( both made in the USA) up to my eyeballs - rubbish, hard to start, always blowing oil seals. BTW - Briggs & Stratton are also known as, "B&S - or BANG AND STOP!!"

Basically, I've found that you get what you pay for. I'd always pay the extra and buy Honda. I've never regretted it.

Bilbo

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:31

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:31

I remember when the Honda CB175 twin motor cycle was introduced to the UK in about 1970 - it was "red lined" at around 13,000rpm iirc! By God did it go! I certainly remember taking one up to about 95mph before my courage deserted me. A very light bike to drive at those speeds. We all thought the "Jap Crap" would only last five minutes - but it lasted a lot longer. Probably the start of the sophisticated production engineering the Japs now have down to a fine art.

Now... where's my $98 550W GMC gen...? :)

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:49

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 18:49

Hi Mike,
That would have been the beginning of the end for those great British marks such as BSA, Triumph, Matchless, Royal Enfield, Norton etc.

Once Honda and the other three Japanese marks got their act together the staid Brits just couldn't compete.

Though some are fighting back in their second go at life.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:16

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:16

Hee hee, my 1991 Honda CBR 250 RR 4 Stroke red lined at 19,000rpms and I pulled 21 out of it on more than one occasion! LOL. your nuts always shrank with the thought of those little pistons going up and down so fast underneath them but it was good fun!

But back on track, I've used my step fathers 2kva kipor several times with only joy, a great peice of gear IMHO. They did the right thing where a lot of others wouldn't and actually kept you in the know (amazing today!!), so all in all, for half the price, good news really. Primus are a good mob from my experience and with that kind of a company behind you, there would not be too much to worry about. Primus would not import the Kipor if it was a peice of crap, everything primus I have used has always been good, even the're re badge of the versa light.

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:36

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:36

21,000rpm! Doesn't even bare thinking about Jeff :)

Geoff: sure was the death knell for British bikes but, to this day, I still lust after a 750cc Norton Commando twin... ah... the foibles of age.... :)

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:44

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:44

That's why they used to call them "baby screamers". Very distinctive sound, I still hear them from time to time driving around the streets, nothing else quite makes the sound of a 4 stroke with 60ml pots reving it's nut off! LOL. Used to be great fun scaring people as you drove past them in 2nd.... :-O

Me, I wouldn't mind a cruiser of some description... I'd love a CBR 600 EFI, but I can't be trusted on sports bikes... Somthing designed to go slow would be the go I reckon, nice and loud, a V Twin or a singal banger would be nice... I need to go to orange county new york when I win lottoa and pick me up a custom! LOL

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:55

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 19:55

Mines a Mike Hailwood replica Ducati. Rough as guts to ride, raw, no padding on the seat but it's got character in spades.

Got to tell you pair of old bike nuts this story,

About 4 years ago I got an invite to a Honda Blade Blast day at Eastern Creek. Four 20 minute test rides on the then brand new 954 or 955cc Honda Fireblade. I can't remember the exact capacity of that 4 pot screamer.

Anyway, at the time Wayne Gardner was very heavily involved with Honda Australia and was very definitely retired from GP racing.

I've piled on the brand new Fireblade and left the pits full of bleep and vinegar. Wayne Gardner had been standing next to his bike for the day in his leathers and boots, no helmet or gloves. They where sitting on the seat.

About 2/3rd's of the way around Eastern Creek he went past me like I'm going backwards. Wayne passed me another twice in that 20 minute session. He in fact passed all 8 of us on the track 3 times in that 20 minutes!

How good was he when he was winning 500GP's!!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 20:19

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 20:19

Mate of mine had a 250 Ducati - nice bike.

Good story Geoff - demonstrates the difference between the pros and the "rest of us" :)

I often think about getting another bike but suspect I would, probably, kill myself within six months - maybe wait another 15 years, would be a good way to go out? :)

Mike Harding

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 20:42

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 20:42

Hi Mike,
I'm still riding, dirt only these days.
I own three bikes,
76' 360 Auto Husqvarna
81' WR430 Husqvarna
91' 610TE Husqvarna

You might guess I'm partial to European machinery. No character the Japanese bikes, they're like cans of coke. All exactly the same from the first of the model to the last.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:08

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:08

The last bike I owned in the UK before coming to "Oz" was a BSA Rocket Gold Star. Those that know these beasts would realise that it's a 650cc BSA Road Rocket done to DB34 Gold Star specs. It was quite a machine with an RRT2 gearbox so highly geared that it did around 90MPH (that's MPH in) first gear!!. It was a real cow to drive in town traffic, but out on the open road - oooohhhBOY!! It was uneffinbeeeelavabbbuubbblle!! It would go down to 25MPH (clutch slippling a little here) up to 130MPH in top gear!!

The next best thing was my Velocette Thruxton Venom - A thoroughbred race machine with lights!!

The bike I always lusted after as a young man was 250cc Ducati Daytona. There's a mint one in Perth that I know about but he won't sell it!!

If I was gonna buy a bike these days it would be a Ducati OR I'd go back to the UK and buy a Rickman Metisse with a 650cc Bonneville engine OR a 500cc BSA DB 34 series Gold Star - but have you seen the money they want fer 'em!!

Take care on yer battery powered gofers you guys,,,,,,,,,,,

Bilbo

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:19

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:19

PS,,,,,,there is no more awesome sound than Mike Hailwood on the 6 cylinder 250CC Honda coming down The Mountain to Creg Ny Baa during The Isle of Man TT race in,,,,,,, 1966 I think. What an EFFFIINNNN noise that was. 6 cylinders, 250CC and around 18000 RPM!! I have a pic on my wall of that bike and Mike the Bike.

,,,,,,,,,and the memory of that Silver Jubileee TT Race 500cc between Hailwood on the 500cc Honda and Agostini on the MV Augusta wil live with me till the day I die!! It still makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck even now. I was down at the Creg and witnessed the tears in Ago's eyes with his goggles up as he coasted down to Douglas with a broken rear chain after a 4.5 lap duel with Mike The Bike!!

It was the ONLY chain in the race that wasn't a British made Reynolds chain,,,,,,,,,due to Count Augusta's policy that his bikes MUST be 100% Italian.

Nuff said eh!

Bilbo

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:21

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:21

Brother Baggins,
You really need to check out VMX Mag if you aspire to owning a Rickman Matisse then his is the place for you!!

You wouldn't believe it, only this afternoon I went all misty eyed when I found a Bantam for sale on Bike Point.

Love your taste in bikes. I'll ride the Japanese variants occassionally but hey, they've got no style.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:28

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:28

Geez mate,

"there is no more awesome sound than Mike Hailwood on the 6 cylinder 250CC Honda coming down The Mountain to Creg Ny Baa during The Isle of Man TT race in,,,,,,, 1966 I think"

I was seven and I'm jealous as hell.

Those pair had great big brass buggers. I'm surprised they could actually get the brassies and themselves onto a seat!!

I hope you're not referring to the Husky fleet as "battery powered gofers" not a one of them owns a battery and they've all got the kick starter on the left best served by your right boot!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:32

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 22:32

It's Metisse, Metisse, get it right!!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:25

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:25

Geoff,

Yer getting teary-eyed again - I wrote METISSE - didn't I??

Re Mike the Bike and Ago in the 1967 TT - I was about 20 years old and ready for anything - drinking, smoking, rooting 'n racing!!

Anyway - Bantams. I was given a clapped out 150cc BSA Bantam at the age of 12 by my uncle. I rebuilt it and had my first bike that we used to ride up and down the towpath of The Sankey - St Helens canal. Until one day my mate lost it and drove it full belt into the canal!! It sank quickly. He surfaced. I tired to drown him but his monther intervened,,,,,,,,,,,

But it got me started on bikes and by the age of 15 I was building racing engines, mainly Villiers single cylinder two strokes in Cottons and Greeves. But I could get that 250cc Villiers twin to do marvellous things with a little porting and some gas flowing. Made 'em howl - but blow up!! People that I did the twins for were mainly street racers and just wouldn't be told that ya can't run 'em flat out day in and day out!!

After that it was all sorts of bikes - AJS's, Matchless singles, BSA, Velos, Triumph twins. I even race tuned a 200cc Tiger Cub to do 107 mph on the M6 motorway - for 3 miles before it erupted in a sheet of hot oil that put me in hospital with facial and leg burns!! I used to blow away 2500cc Honda Dreams on that thing!

Then I had 6 mates killed in 6 months in bike smashes and it was me next. So, I bought a car, got engaged, got married etc,etc, etc - it was all downhill from there!

And to paraphrase a bit - "I've always looked back since!!"

Bilbo

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:27

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:27

PS - the bit about "gofers" was that we're all getting old and those battery powered shopping trolleys are about all we can manage these days!!

Bilbo

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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:35

Sunday, Jan 07, 2007 at 23:35

Hi Bilbo,

"It sank quickly. He surfaced. I tired to drown him but his monther intervened,,,,,,,,,,, "

I'd have drowned both of the buggers, mother and child!!

There's way too much fun to be had as a young fellow buggering about on bikes. I've been lucky, my mates and I raced motocross and enduro so our speeds have been much lower.
We just broke bones but never faced death.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 01:06

Monday, Jan 08, 2007 at 01:06

Geoff,

Not one of these deaths was on a track. These were all on normal roads.

One mate on a Bonneville hit a truck, head on at just over 100MPH. Terminal speed about 145MPH. There wasn't one recognisable piece of that Triumph to be found. There was very little of him at the funeral 'n all!! Both of 'em just blew apart. Very messy.

Mad buggers the lot of us,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I was lucky.

People just don't realise how fragile the human body is.

Bilbo

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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 09, 2007 at 19:02

Tuesday, Jan 09, 2007 at 19:02

Well after lots of motor bike chat it's back to the Kipor.

Got delivered by the Primus salesman this afternoon.

Fueled it up and ran it for 20 minutes with my 520W Angle grinder attached. Didn't miss a beat.

I'm a happy camper again. Thanks Primus.

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