Helicopter Crash
Submitted: Monday, Jul 06, 2020 at 12:17
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Member - Vince M (NSW)
Sad to here that Troy Thomas was
the pilot killed in WA as the former owner/operator of horizontal falls sea planes I had flown with him many times, RIP mate.
Reply By: Member - Vince M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 09:37
Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 09:37
Sardistics say you are far more likely to die driving your car/patrol/hi-lux etc. then flying in a R44, so for a lot of you the risk will be just to high & you will just have to stay at
home ? that's OK more space in the
camp grounds & the POST was not about the type of helicopter, it was about the sad loss of a family guy, who left school early loved the outdoors & sacrificed a lot to make a business that brought much joy & allowed a lot more people see an area that was extremely difficult to experience, I was lucky enough to go many times to the horizontal water falls before any/much tourism took place & it had to be planned
well. I for one enjoyed the ease & comfort he made it for me to take my family & friends out several times & show them, a lot safer than travelling by boat that I have done many times small & large
AnswerID:
632426
Follow Up By: axle - Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 12:22
Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 12:22
Try not let it get to you Vince, in this particular case i know its hard.
Its unbelievable how things get turned around in this place ,its not what it used to be sadly.
Cheers Axle.
FollowupID:
909114
Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 13:38
Wednesday, Jul 08, 2020 at 13:38
.
I believe it"s society that is changing Axle, not just "this place".
FollowupID:
909115
Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 07:57
Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 07:57
I think that this thread is just like any verbal conversation.
It meanders from here, to there, and then on to other
places.
The sadness that Vince, and others are experiencing, is not pleasant but in no way does the meandering of the thread denigrate or minimise that.
The reality is that while the accident is a tragedy for those who know the individuals, for most of us it is just another report of a statistic.
FollowupID:
909128
Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 13:38
Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 13:38
Because we travel in vehicles most of the time, most of our lives, and not in aircraft, of course we are more likely to be involved/die in a vehicle accident if it is to be that way. However, if travelling by helicopter the safety margin is probably less. The projected meaning of opinions and anecdotal info is, if it is a Robinson helicopter the danger/risk level increases over that or other helicopters because of the frequency of the accidents for that make of chopper. The more common they are the more news about them. A
well known fact world wide.
FollowupID:
909130
Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 16:27
Thursday, Jul 09, 2020 at 16:27
Be careful with statistics :)
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/36750/Light_utility_helico.pdf
Page 1 shows that amongst light helicopters, the R22 has less accidents per 100,000hrs than any of the other 3 between 1990 and 2002.
I have spent a bit of time in an R22 on a cattle station. The owner/pilot refused to carry any passenger if he was mustering.

R22

R22

R22
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
FollowupID:
909132
Follow Up By: Winner W - Friday, Jul 10, 2020 at 08:03
Friday, Jul 10, 2020 at 08:03
It is interesting to analise those numbers . Pilot error vs mechanical failure .
RIP to the deceased . Hope the survivors pull through.
FollowupID:
909136
Reply By: RMD - Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 09:39
Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 09:39
The air crash investigation has just released info which says a pilot reported unusual vibes in the craft 2 days before, Crews balanced the tail rotor but apparently didn't look further. Seemed ok and sent it out. Tail rotor assembly gearbox blew off the boom shortly after takeoff that day. If the fault was that bad to shatter the entire rotor and gearbox completely off the chopper, they couldn't have looked into any possible faults of vibes much at all. I don't want to have them service any of my gear. It must have been detectable if straight after it, it loses the whole thing off the tail due to destructive vibe failure.
I noticed in the photo of the report that both blades of the tail rotor were still attached to the pitch control mechanism and shaft and right angle drive gearbox, having been examined and balanced they should not have been the problem but the tail boom mount plate is where the tail rotor gearbox departed from. Sort of indicates bolting was at fault.
Maybe the Robinson is far better than reports say and it is the servicing and repairs which are downing them.
AnswerID:
632454
Reply By: Zippo - Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:19
Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:19
For those who don't receive the ATSB reports directly,
here is a link to their preliminary.
Notable is that the first pilot reported not only vibration but also a "tapping" felt via the rotor pedals. Maintenance
check-balanced the tail rotor and found nothing amiss. The deceased pilot also noted the vibration AFTER the maintenance. The failure was shortly after take-off on the first flight after maintenance.
Without being specifically familiar with their rotor gearbox, the tapping in any gearbox would suggest to me a fractured gear/tooth, and failure by lock-up would certainly cause the type of separation experienced.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 13:37
Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 13:37
I agree, and if the service people had checked the lube fluid for any
debris with the symptoms already given to them not much investigation was done, otherwise they would have detected the source of the issue, surely. In Chinooks they have a detector plug which when sufficient metallic particle matter is present it sets off and alarm. They don't want catastrophic failure of the main rotor gearbox.
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Follow Up By: Member - J&A&KK - Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 19:05
Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 19:05
Hi Zippo
Similar post to
mine and similar conclusion. To have the whole tail rotor assembly torn from the empennage points very strongly to a gearbox failure. Not sure what else could break that then results in all that power tearing things apart at that point in the drive line.
Cheers
John
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909165
Follow Up By: Member - J&A&KK - Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 19:21
Saturday, Jul 11, 2020 at 19:21
Hi RMD
The R44 has chip detectors on both the main rotor and tail rotor gearboxes. This is usually the case on all modern rotaries.
From my personal experience they are a bit oversensitive and sometimes set off the master alarm for no apparent reason. Land as soon as you can after it goes off, pull out the plug, examine carefully, find nothing give it a wipe and off you go.
So if the tail rotor gearbox was decaying and making metal then the chip detector must have been U/S. It is a possibility but I am leaning towards a catastrophic component failure.
If you want to do some research the following link may be helpful:
http://rotorcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/r44_mm_general.pdf
Cheers
John
FollowupID:
909166
Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 at 10:28
Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 at 10:28
Page 1.4, para 1.115 indicates a possibility. Varnish on a chip detector, rendering it ineffective.
So many possibilities, of course, so anything we say here is mere speculation.
Regardless, the result is most distressing.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Jul 13, 2020 at 20:21
Monday, Jul 13, 2020 at 20:21
After viewing the ATSB pictures it looks as though some broken edges of the rear gearbox mounting were cracked before total failure. That may explain the ticking sound experienced by both pilots. Just a possibility but
Canberra will find the issue.
FollowupID:
909190
Reply By: OzzieCruiser - Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:15
Sunday, Jul 12, 2020 at 12:15
That report flags something to me - the vibration was reported earlier, the maintenance people looked at it and it seemed OK on a ground run, then
the pilot then noticed the vibration was still there but then chose to to go on the flight with his daughter embarked, noting the flight manual indicates not to fly or land immediately if vibrations are detected.
So while there is clearly a mechanical issue, there is also an issue of pilot error with disastrous results.
AnswerID:
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