Bleeding a IHDFTE Toyo engine?

Submitted: Friday, Dec 28, 2012 at 21:00

ThreadID: 99683 Views:16259 Replies:8 FollowUps:26

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Diesel Fuel Injection Systems

For drivers of petrol/gasoline-engined vehicles, fuel injection is a relatively new innovation. Only in the last decade or so has fuel injection become the norm and its predecessor,

Axle

MyB/Inlaw is driving me nuts with his new toy, as never owning a diesel at all in his life, he is now petrified about having to bleed this thing if he runs out of fuel!......I know! "don't run out of bloody fuel "and all is ok)...Try tell him this ..lol..but having a look at this thing i noticed theres no bleed screw on the filter head,so i guess you take the outlet pipe off and prime till fuel comes out that, bit of a chit mr toyo!!, i don't like disturbing fuel lines, and whats the go at the pump end do you have to pull that cover off to get to bleed screws,or can you get enough fuel through winding it over to just crack a injector pipe?....Starting to luv my V8 petrol cruiser ..lol...And the old Landy if it does suck air,, add fuel and scream start ya b.....d..and away she goes!

Imformation on that engine as far as this goes would be appreciated

Cheers Axle.

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Reply By: Aussi Traveller - Friday, Dec 28, 2012 at 23:15

Friday, Dec 28, 2012 at 23:15

At the fuel filter there is a hand pump on top, remove the line to the fuel pump and hand prime the fuel through the filter, once the fuel comes through (obvious) reconect the line to the pump a further 3 or 4 times and then start the car.

Phil

AnswerID: 501190

Follow Up By: Axle - Friday, Dec 28, 2012 at 23:24

Friday, Dec 28, 2012 at 23:24

Thanks Phil,

So if it totally runs out of fuel you only have to bleed the filter?

Axle.

FollowupID: 777234

Follow Up By: hamo - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 09:02

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 09:02

No need to remove any thing.
If you change fuel filters, You just push/pump the black button on top of the fuel filter.

A very simple procedure.

If you run 1 tank out of fuel, You only need to switch to the other tank & crank the engine & it will start & run fine with out doing a thing, Other than switching tanks.

You can change tanks on the run with out stopping if you run 1 tank dry.

Hamo

FollowupID: 777241

Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 09:14

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 09:14

No you don't have to take the line off, but the 10 seconds it takes to remove it helps, there is less air running through the line and the fuel pump picks up the fuel quicker leaving less time the pump is running DRY, I find it is better to remove the line, but then again I have never run out of fuel, my experience is with changing the fuel filter.

FollowupID: 777242

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 10:02

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 10:02

When close to civilisation I purposely run each tank dry, on different trips though, and then simply switched tanks at the first cough and without a hitch, continued. I did this to see how easy it was to run each tank dry. May come in handy one day on such drives as the Canning.

You have to be mindfull that you may pick up muck or water from the bottom of the tank, when running a tank dry. I do not think I would do it unless necessary.

Phil

FollowupID: 777246

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:54

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:54

Gerday PJR,

Silly question, but how would you pick up any more "Muck" from the bottom when running out of fuel, than normal driving as the pickup is just off the bottom anyway?

Good idea BTW to know exactly how many usable litres are in your car, I usually just run it until the warning light comes on then refill keeping note of how much goes in.

I will occasionally drain the last bit out of the tank just to elimimant any nastys that may be lurking in there!

FollowupID: 777250

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 12:32

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 12:32

hi ozrover
you a very right
dirty fuel and water sit at the bottom of any diesel tank and petrol tank and can be sucked up by the fuel pump as soon as it settles after entering the tank
its an absolute fallessy amongst diesel and petrol owners who believe you can only get dirty fuel through your system if the tank runs low the suction pipe is fixed to and near the bottom of every tank petrol or diesel tank that i have seen
water is heavier than bove petrol and diesel and will always go to the lowest position
if anyone doesnt believe
meget 2 containers and put some of each fuel in and pour a cup of water in to each and wait and see where the water finishes up
cheers

FollowupID: 777251

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 13:19

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 13:19

Hi Jeff

Wouldn't any "heavier" stuff still remain near the pickup? I have never had the pleasure of sticking my head in and having a look so it is more of a precautionary thought and not based on fact or science. Also aren't the tanks baffled to inhibit a lot of "surging" and thus mixing of good fuel and dirt and water we get occasionally.

I gather then that we do not have to worry about running dry as far as picking up dirt and water is concerned. Just run it dry anytime. Is that correct? I certainly don't mind being wrong in this case.

Should be up your way mid year but I need longer this time and am hoping the doctor will okay it. At least five weeks and with my treatments every four weeks its going to be hard to get clearance.

Take care

Phil

FollowupID: 777253

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 17:29

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 17:29

hi pjr
you cant get anything much heavier than dirty water in fuel and it will be all eventually sucked up and through to your filter sediment bowl if you have one where it can be drained away or if its a bigger amount it will block the filter after it fills the bowl you will start to lose engine power through lack of fuel as it blocks the filter
unfortunatley most tanks these days dont have a drain plug which is a very easy way of letting diry fuel out of the tank if you get a blocked filter or bowl full instead of having it all come through via the fuel system
my 1997 mazda bravo diesel has a tank drain plug
and a water trap right near the tank and then i installed a filter with another bowl/water trap in the engine bay
in newer vehicles whether its cost cutting or whether they want you to go to a service center when you get dirty fuel could be the primary reason for discontinueing drain plugs in tanks
which really isnt any help if your out the back of beyond
a filter with a bowl is good but 2 filters one with a bowl is even better and/or 2 water traps
in respect to tank baffles they usualy attach to each side of a tank and are just above the bottom and below the top of the tank internally so it stops slooshing of fuel
but doesnt restict the fuel from reaching the suction pipe if you get the drift the baffles are not in there to stop dirty fuel coming through hope this clears up you concerns some tanks have a small fiter on the pickup pipe
cheers barry

cheers

FollowupID: 777272

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:15

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:15

Thanks Mazcan

I got my answer

Cheers

Phil

FollowupID: 777275

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 02:34

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 02:34

its an really bad idea to make a habit of running a diesel out of fuel, the more modern especially. No different to dropping the oil out of your engine then running it til there is no oil pressure.
Diesel fuel provides all of the lubrication and cooling for your high pressure fuel pump.
On the dirt being picked up-Mazcan, it is not an "absolute fallacy".
There is such a thing as "free surface effect", which as the tank gets lower will cause more movement and stirring of the sediment etc. When your tank hold 100 litres and is full there is no movement.
Try your experiment of getting a bottle and chucking a bit of water in the fuel.
Shake the bottle when it is full, observe then take 3/4 of the fuel out and shake it and see the difference.

FollowupID: 777321

Reply By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 08:53

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 08:53

I have run out of fuel a few times in my Toyota diesel and I just switch tanks, pump the filter until it is hard, start the car and head off. Nothing to it.

Jack

The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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AnswerID: 501198

Reply By: x4by4 - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 13:58

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 13:58

Please DO NOT run your diesel tank dry!
The modern rotary injector pump and the injectors are lubricated by the diesel oil, and running it dry will cause damage, especially on the common rail diesels where the tolerances are much finer.
The older diesels are more tolerant, however it is still not good for them

The Toyotas and a lot of the others can be primed with the hand primer on the fuel filter with out disconnecting the fuel line.

Cheers
Peter B

AnswerID: 501206

Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:34

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:34

Yeh its not a good idea to run any fuel injected vehicle dry, the fuel is used as a coolant and lubricant for the pump and injectors.

almsot all modern vehicles have a circular fuel system where the fuel pressure is regulated by blowing off excess fuel and returned to the fuel tank..this is constantly happening...this circulating fuel also acts as a coolant.

My diesel hilux has a 90 liter tank and it reads empty and the red light is on with abot 20 liters still in the tank...I have never pumped more than 75 liters into it..

Fuel is constsntly sloshing arround and being circulated by the fuel return, when you get very low in a fuel tank there is less fuel between the lumpy bits and there is more liklyhood that they will be picked up.

Also may fuel tanks contan a swirl pot, where the warm returning fuel is mixed with incomming fuel arround the pick up.....this tends to keep rubish away from the pick up.....when the tank is getting very low..again there is less fuel between the lumps and the swirl is not as effective.

ALSO, in diesel pumps because the fuel in the lubricant, having air sucked into the diesel pump and thru the injectors is not a good thing at all.

BY far not a god idea to run a diesel dry

Yes while you can pump the primer on the filter and the engine may start with a spltter..its not the recomended thing.

you bleed the injector line by cracking the nipple nuts on the injectors like you do on almost every conventional diesel motor ever made.

Serioulsy do yaself and him a big favor....buy him a service manual.

the Haynes 92737 covers all models of that series, the Max Ellery EP.T034 while it is a prado manual covers that engine and most of the hilux mechanicals of that era.

Best to buy both, one covers the gaps of the other.....you will not buy a genuine manual new.

cheers

AnswerID: 501208

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:39

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:39

Now you may understand the saying....." well tweak my nipple nuts and crank me over"

cheers

FollowupID: 777259

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:51

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 14:51

Never heard that one before.

What I was discussing was to see what the case was if we ever needed to run one dry. I that gather you would stop with 10 litres in each tank and walk the 100 kms to the fuel dump. Not me mate. Now that I know the risks and how much I can empty a tank and how to prime it from the other tank, I will run one dry if really needed.

Please tell me what to do if I do not know these facts and both tanks are flashing. Before chatting with Jeff and sundry I would be deep in it. Thanks guys.

Of course no one is talking about doing it every week. That is stupid. Even I knew that.

Phil

FollowupID: 777261

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 15:09

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 15:09

Current series diesel Hiluxes have a 76 litre tank or is yours an aftermarket tank? Maybe that is why you can only get 75litres into it?

Lumpy bits stay in the tank - there is a very fine mesh sleeve that sits on the bottom of the tank on the fuel pickup in the factory Toyota tanks that sorts out lumpy bits before they reach the filter.

This thread is about the 1HD-FTE motor - would be on the 78/79/100 series Landcruisers - not a Hilux. The Gregorys manual is the best I've found for this model. The Ellery's leaves a lot to be desired - tries to cover too many models but occasionally comes up with something useful.

Also I wouldn't bother cracking the injectors on a 1HD-FTE - they are located under the rocker cover.

Cheers
phil

FollowupID: 777264

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 16:50

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 16:50

Oh sorry I now notice that its a 1HD FTE...thats the common rail motor.......HELL that makes it even more important never to run the thing dry...these common rail motors are so intolerant of just about everything.

I haven't got one don't want one and if i had one I would not let it run dry umless it was a life and death matter.

Anybody had to cough up for a fuel pump rebuild or an injector replacement in these things.

As for the recomended procedure when you do run em dry.....refeer to the manual

As for the fuel tank capacity
In the previous series with the conventional diesel motor there where 3 different fuel tanks
From memory a 90 liter in the single cab diesels, a70 liter in the single cab petrols and a pissy little 60 liter in the dual cabs.

cheers

FollowupID: 777270

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 17:20

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 17:20

As for 10 liters in each tank and 100km to go...mate ya still gona be walking.

Because these tanks are designed for a certain amount of cooling fuel capacity thay will not pick up very well when the tank is low.

you could be trying to drive it for ages going bup b burp br p p p, an old carburated engine would tolerate that.......it realy is not at all good for EFI petrol or Common rail diesels

We have to face facts.....the modern 4wds will not tolerate all sorts of things......flat battery..finished......contaminated fuel...finished & big bill......run out of fuel far more serious issue than the older generation machines.

You'd run a cance when ya injectors are $120 each, but when they are $400+ each and tolerate nothing but clean fuel.....nup.

cheers

FollowupID: 777271

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:19

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:19

So what are you saying. Sell the car (7 years old) because it isnt old enough. And as for using the figure of 10 litres are you for real. That was just an example. I haven't the exact figure nor do I now need it.

Cheers

Phil

FollowupID: 777277

Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:57

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 18:57

Bantam. You don't know what your talking about. A 1hdt fte isn't common rail.
While running a diesel out of fuel is best avoided it won't instantly destroy the fuel pump
Signed owner of a 1Hz for 7 years and nearly 400k . That actually sometimes getsvrun dry

FollowupID: 777286

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 21:32

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 21:32

If it isn't a common rail.....previous comments remain.

Just because i don't have every single engine number running arround in my head does not mean I don't know what I am talking about.

I mistakedly thaught we where talking about hiluxes.

My comment that the first thing to do is get the appropiate service manuals stands

BTW I never said that running a diesel out of fuel will instantly distroy it.......its just something best avoided.

If its a common rail however and that running low results in picking up crap that gets past the filters.....in particular water....yep you may instantly distroy it or at least in very short order.....and ya wont fix it by the side of the road.......it may well will be an expensive recovery.

Best not to get any crap in ya tank to start with but that ie easier said than done.

Re PJR's comments......Yeh go thow the baby out with the bathwater......if you cant come to terms with the fact that the modern cars in particular the common rail diesels do not cope with a variety of things the older vehicles would.......sorry its an unavoidable fact......yep ya best getting rid of the thing and fast.

Far more sensible is just don't let the thing run out of fuel......if you are running yourself that close to the edge you should not be remote traveling.

Face facts, modern cars are not designed to use every last drop of fuel out of the tank, they are specificaly designed so they don't.

cheers

FollowupID: 777303

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 21:47

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 21:47

Bantam Nothing like arriving at the station after the train has gone. All sorted out before. I suggest you put your glasses back on and read the rest of the thread above.

FollowupID: 777304

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:46

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:46

The Bantam posted...
"If it isn't a common rail" and "If its a common rail however"

Bantam, why is it you can't believe a simple fact - 1HD-FTE is NOT common rail!

If you don't know, then either accept what the nice people on Exploroz are telling you, or don't bother posting.

FollowupID: 777308

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:46

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:46

There is no station, there is no train and this is a multi string thread.

I sugest you don't start arguments if you don't want to finish them.

cheers

FollowupID: 777309

Follow Up By: hamo - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 05:37

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 05:37

Im with Phil G on this part of the discusion.
The 1hd-fte motor is NOT a common rail motor.

Hamo

FollowupID: 777322

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:57

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:57

Hammo and phill G.....I am constanty dumb founded at peoples failure in the most basic english comprehension and ability to follow a discussion.

It also interests me that certain people cant seem to cope with the concept that discussions diverge on internet forums......this forum is specificaly structured to accomodate divergent discussions.

it is the case more than the exception that threads go far beyond the first posters question or comment.

Yes the 1hd-fte is a conventional 6 cylinder turbocharged diesel motor as found in some landcrusers and light toyota trucks.

The thread diverged and common rail became part of the discussion long ago.

Please try to keep up.

cheers

FollowupID: 777331

Follow Up By: Aussi Traveller - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:40

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:40

Hay Bantam take a chill pill it is only a forum, don't stress yourself out, go fishing instead. LOL

FollowupID: 777333

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 15:20

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 15:20

Priming diesels is getting easier. For the last 23 years on Landcruisers its just been a matter of lifting the bonnet and pushing the primer button until hard. The air gets pushed back via the return line into the fuel tank it came from. If the button doesn't want to go hard then sometime removing the cap off the fuel tank helps by releasing the suction. Sometimes, with age, the primer pump doesn't work too well - from memory it costs about $200 for a new one from toyota.

I never take off the outlet pipe from the filter - its a surefire way to introduce a bit of dirt into the injector pump. I prefer to change filters with the hoses attached. You can however take off the fuel return hose off the injector pump and wait for fuel to flow from it.

My wife's VW Tiguan is simpler again. It has an electric primer pump in the tank - just turn on the ignition about 5 times and the fuel line is primed. It also has a fuel filter that is twice as big as the Toyotas!

AnswerID: 501211

Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Dec 31, 2012 at 15:37

Monday, Dec 31, 2012 at 15:37

i had just bought my first 4by and first diesal and was showing an old bloke under the bonnet (2h)

he loves telling people what he knows and for whatever reason explained how to bleed it (crack the bleed nipple, unscrew hand pump and pump)

and blow me down if i didnt need it a couple of weeks later in the middle of the night

if i hadnt paid attention i would have been stuck with a beginners mistake

FollowupID: 777428

Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:04

Saturday, Dec 29, 2012 at 22:04

Well what a lot of mixed replys this has been,......Iwould luv to have all you guys around a diesel thats run out of fuel...What a argument that would be..lol.lol.

In my experience with landrover, isuzu, and a host of older style diesels, you always bled the filter, then the pump, and with some of them there was no way in hell they would go until you cracked no 1 injector,that usually depended on just how dry it was run. Hence my question regarding the hdfte toyo motor, with no bleed screw at the filter head andthe pump all covered up, iwas thinking these things are a piece of cake to prime or a absolute pitta, seems you can just push all air thru the system to the return tank line very quickley, not the case with some older diesels,...what about filling the filter before fitting, save the hand primer a little bit of wear?, or i suppose your using unfiltered fuel then, or are you? if its poured straight into the filter?

Thanks for the info so far anyway, never to old to learn things

Cheers Axle.

AnswerID: 501229

Reply By: Rockape - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 06:13

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 06:13

Axle,
with all this bleeding going on I hope someone called a doctor.

AnswerID: 501240

Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 18:17

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 18:17

LOL RA,......He needs a big bag of all sorts,....Happy pills, stress relief, something that cures foot @mouth disease, ...Alzimer tablets to keep everything on the one track...what else?..lol.

HNY

axle.

FollowupID: 777350

Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 19:45

Sunday, Dec 30, 2012 at 19:45

I've run mine out a few times. Most common way is to switch to the sub then forget to put it to main after refueling(no low fuel light for sub) then a couple of hundred ks after refueling the old girl dies (no brrp brrp just stops dead)
Gets your attention first time

AnswerID: 501274

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