Jayco Expanda and Subaru Outback

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:38

ThreadID: 90849 Views:6373 Replies:4 FollowUps:10

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Elecmuso

Hi
We're new to the caravan scene but reckon we know what would suit us. Probably a Jayco Expanda 16 foot van or similar.
We have yet to purchase though we have our eyes on one. But I am a little concerned about the towing capability of our main vehicle. It is a Subaru Outback 2.5 2008.
I've seen mixed opinions. I'm prepared to purchase a commodore or similar as a second workhorse vehicle if necessary but of course would prefer not to.
Eiher way we want to purchase a caravan of some sort so perhaps any caravan would be tough on our Subaru. Are these Expanda Vans typical weight or are there considerablly lighter options without going for a camper trailer.
Cheers
Greg

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Reply By: snailbait (Blue mntns) - Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:53

Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:53

Elecmuso
Hi
First of all you must match the caravan to the vehiocle not the vehicle to the caravan ie buy the caravan first
You will need to find out the ATM ( Argate trailer mass) of the caravan.
Then see what the max weight the vehicle will tow. it should be in your vehicle manual.
Then you go on from there
Terry

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AnswerID: 473404

Follow Up By: Elecmuso - Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 15:20

Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 15:20

Thanks snailbait.
When you said 'not the vehicle to the caravan ie buy the caravan first' are you saying to NOT buy the caravan first. The statement you made can be read either way depending whether you pause after the word 'caravan'!
Anyway the Jayco Expanda we are looking at has a towball weight of 145kg, Tare weight of 1455kg.
Our Outback has a MPW ('Maximum Permissible Weight') of 2,040kg and a 'MPAW' (Maximum Permissible Rear Axle Weight') of 1,170kg.
Greg

FollowupID: 748233

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 15:58

Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 15:58

What is the max permissible ball weight for the tow vehicle and what is the max permissible ball weight for the tow bar. The overall allowable tow ball weight will the lesser of the two and must be greater than the towbar weight of the van.

FollowupID: 748235

Follow Up By: Elecmuso - Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 16:10

Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 16:10

Just had a look at the actual towbar which has a Subaru sticker on it. It says:

Unbraked: 750kg
Braked: 1500kg
Maximum towball down load 90kg or with a levelling hitch 150kg.

Sounds like it will just be OK with a levelling hitch - which I know nothing about.
Thanks for the feedback - let me know if you have any more!
How do you think the vehicle will be towing it? Being legal os one thing, comfortable is another I suppose.

Greg

FollowupID: 748237

Follow Up By: snailbait (Blue mntns) - Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 19:28

Tuesday, Dec 27, 2011 at 19:28

Elecmuso
Hi Your Jaco Expanda sounds like it has a ATM OF ABOUT 2000 KGS IF THE TARE WEIGHT you have written. AS the norm is to add 300 kgs to the tare weight for load cap That means you need a tow bar capable of about 2000 kgs to tow that van. I meant that you buy the caravan first and then buy the vehicle to suit
That fig of 1500kg Braked for the towbar is not large or big enough to tow a caravan of nearly 2000kgs
Please make sure and have look for the ATM the tow bar has to be able to take the ATM of the caravan
Terry

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 09:42

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 09:42

I agree - that van is too big for the towbar. The van is on the weight limit for the bar and is over for ball weight.

You need top check what the car's towing limitations are - you have identified the limitations of the tow bar but not the car. You need to look in the car's handbook - a quick google indicates max brakes tow weight is 1500kg and unbraked 735kg - towball weight was not listed but I assume it is low. Diesel has a tow weight of 1700kg.

It looks like the Outback is not a great tow vehicle for medium to large vans.

Garry

FollowupID: 748289

Reply By: landed eagle - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 07:46

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 07:46

I own a 16 foot expanda outback.
I have driven my elderly neighbour's Subaru Outback on occasion . I personally wouldn't like to tow my van with his vehicle even if it met all the weight criteria and was legal.I use a 2009 Triton GLX/R,much more suited to the work.
Just because the numbers say you can tow x amount, doesn't mean you should. Leave some room, don't tow to the limit of your vehicle. You'll only wear it out faster and maybe end with disaster.

AnswerID: 473454

Follow Up By: Elecmuso - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:16

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:16

Thanks Garry

I have no intention of pushing the boundaries. We know the Expanda 16ft is about right for us. I could use a new car (see initial post).

So the question is what will I be up for? I suggested a commodore initially. It needs to be an 'inexpensive workhorse'.

Would they be suitable? I will look for some data on the web but there must be many here who would be able to tell me straight off.

Then there are Falcons.

Presumably FWD vehicles are out of the equation.

BTW: What year is your Expanda? The one we are looking at is a 2004 Freedom.

Greg

FollowupID: 748303

Follow Up By: landed eagle - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 13:54

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 13:54

Mine is a 16-49-3 Hardlid outback. 2009 bought new.

I used to tow a Jayco Eagle with a 1994 EF Falcon wagon. Later models would be even more capable tow vehicles.That big lazy six cyl engine will pull all day. Leaf rear end in the ford wagons makes a better option than coil independant of commodores. IMO anyway.

FollowupID: 748316

Reply By: Horacehighroller - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:18

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:18

G-day Elecmuso,

Being a novice it is important for you to have a basic understanding of some of the terms and issues.

It is extremely inportant that you are aware that if you exceed any stipulated weight of the vehicle or the van you may find yourself un-insured in the unfortunate event of an accident.

You advised "Snailbait" that the caravan has a tare weight of 1,455kg.
Tare is the unladen weight of the van before you add water, gas and all your personal belongings and equipment.
You need to find out what is the "Aggregate" weight of the van. This is the maximum weight which the van can legally be.

Once you know the aggregate mass (and assuming you load your items into the van so it is correctly balanced) you could ensure that the towball/hitch weight remained at/under 150 kg, but as others have advised you will likely be at a total van weight (aggregate) of 1,800 to 2,000 kgs.

The other weights which you advised to "snailbait" initially relate to the vehicle itself, not to any trailers.
I can't recall exactly what they were, but, once loaded and hitched up to a van, the vehicle weight cannot exceed the amount specified (2.200??kg) and the maximum weight over the back wheels (of the tow vehicle) cannot be greater than the 1,045?kg.

If any of these specified weights is exceeded you will be illegal.

I would guesstimate that you could legally tow that van with the subaru so long as the van was empty, but not once loaded.

Partially related to the above is (my belief) that most van manufacturers do not allow for enough carrying capacity for your personal equipment and effects. Be careful to calculate the difference between the "Tare" and "Aggregate" as this is the maximum weight of everything you can put into the van.

Also, before you buy a van ensure that it weighs in correctly at the specified "Tare". Some manufacturers are inclined to understate the actual tare, so that a naive person with a smaller than necessary vehicle is led to believe that the van is "OK" for their car.

This has become somewhat longer than intended but I hope it helps.

Peter

AnswerID: 473470

Follow Up By: ozjohn0 - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 14:16

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 14:16

Peter has hit the nail on the head.
The van you're considering with a TARE of 1450Kg will when loaded substancially exceed the legal tow weight and ball weight for the vehicle.
So, back to the drawing board.
Ozjohn

FollowupID: 748322

Follow Up By: Elecmuso - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 14:46

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 14:46

Guys

As per my follow up above, we are quite prepared to purchase a dedicated tow vehicle. This would be my 'workhorse' and need not be fancy and preferably inexpensive, so I am thinking a 6-8 yo Commodore or Falcon (presumably FWD not a good idea).

I've heard that Falcon wagons are better due to the leaf springs (above on this forum and elsewhere on the web).

I'd be interested to hear other suggestions.

FollowupID: 748326

Reply By: Elecmuso - Friday, Dec 30, 2011 at 18:27

Friday, Dec 30, 2011 at 18:27

Guys

It looks highly likely we will be buying this Jayco Expanda. Before I write the cheque I'd like to know what I will be up for as far as a tow vehicle is concerned.

Is a Falcon or Commodore a good option? Then there are Ford Terrorys but that would be a significantly mnore expensive.

Please provide feedback asap as the seller needs an answer from me tonight.

Cheers

AnswerID: 473643