winches

I agree with Josh, I have a 12000lb Ironman, hasn't let me down. I had a 9500lm Warn and that thing let me down more than once.

as far as the heating issuses is that long(over 30 sec) single line pulls or does it heat up fast in general?

fast in general & HOT, if you can winch out in 30 seconds your not stuck that bad & look at your winch speeds & pull power per layer so if your stuck & loaded you will want to get as much cable out as possible so your winch is at its most powerful, you will want to be able to winch for a lot longer than 30 seconds as often when you stop it loads up with the suction etc... & any load is easier to move once you get it moving & keep it moving
talk to both company's as some model's only have the problem on the feed out, my old warn will heat on a power out as it fights the brake but not a real problem as most of the time its on free spoil for out. in my life I have only used a winch to lower me/vehicle down a section a few times
good luck as its hard to warrant the $ for some brands & A friend purchased one of the cheapest winches & it still works fine & it was purchased from aldi & it has probably been used more than most. he's a timber collector in tas

thanks for the input
i'm buying the bar going to get the winch seperate and install it myself that way im not pigeon holed into a certain brand.