Travelling Companions..Beware

Submitted: Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 18:36
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I recently returned from a remote area trip wherein the group of 5 vehicles split into 2 groups. A very unsavoury situation where 2 vehicle left the remaining 3 vehicles and pushed on ahead of the other, neither group to see each other again. However i know the splinter group returned home safely as did my group.
It all started way back when I was looking to find like minded people to travel over a remote area. I already had 2 other couples attending but I thought another one or two would be a safer bet ie a total of 5 vehicles.
When choosing people from either a forum like this one or elsewhere make sure they are like minded people who have similiar interests and have a similiar amount of time to complete the journey. Even if you have a weekend together to "Eyeball" each other, may not be enough as it was in my case. As the organiser of the journey I took it as my responsibility to ensure a harmonious group. When the meeting took place it was firmly understood by all that the remote portion of the journey would take approximately 10 days plus a rest day in between.
After many months of planning we all met at the designated location for our remote area journey. Day 1-5 was all OK although I detected a little desention when (shall I call my original crew Gp A and the other Gp B) Gp B were a bit exasperated that Gp A were constantly stopping to "look at the flowers" observing wildlife mainly repiles and Dingos and anything else that took our fancy. Two members of Gp A had a wealth of knowledge of Flora) However whilst we were travelling slowly and trying to stop at about 4.30-5.30pm each night we were "on track" time wise. This was all part of my plan which everyone was aware of.
This trip was only going to happen once so we wanted to make the most of it. Info we had, indicted that an excellent campsite was to be had at a particular location, (there weren't that many decent ones) and so when we arrived at this spot on day 6 at about 10.00am we stopped and I put it to the whole group that (after a successful Recce) that this was indeed the place for our rest day. Gp A were keen to stay the remainder of the day (and night) but Gp B were not and were keen to "Push on and get out the otherside then rest". After some mildly heated discussions all stayed in camp that day but the simbiotics of the two groups deterioated. And so it remained that way until on the 8th and ardous day, as Gp leader I decided to stop at 4.00pm. Gp B were mortified that I should stop so early as "there is still 2 hours of daylight left lets keep moving" No, I said, "the boogy man will still be there tomorrow for you tackle whats 2 hours? Rest now and be refreshed for the next day." NO was their reply "we are going on to recce the creek area to see if there is a way across." That was political speak that I correctly understood to mean that they were leaving, they departed not to be seen again. We (Gp A) continued our journey and thru perseverence successfully reached all the locations that we originally set out to do all be it 3 1/2 days later... and had a great time doing it as it felt that a great cloud had been lifted of us.
Lookiing from Gp B's point of view, they were probably happy to get away from us and get the trip over and done with. Which tells me they also erred regarding the peolpe they travelled with.

So that is my tale bewarned !!

regards
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:06

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:06
Hey Jeff , is that you - it sounds like our trip (see 26 hours thread) - I knew you were on exploroz oz , but not the name , good to see all ended well.
Robin Miller

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Reply By: SIF4X4 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:08

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:08
Been there and done that with some well known characters

Travel alone these days
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:38

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:38
Its funny how its everyone elses problem when they tell you to get stuffed and elect to continue travels without you!!

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Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:05

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:05
It becomes a bit like a failed marriage........everyone is right and no one will accept responsibility for the failure
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:14

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:14
Not the analogy I would have used, given my experience, but to each his own.
How many times have you been told to get stuffed in the last few years?
I would put money on it being more than once!!

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Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:51

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:51
Can't recall any incident of being told off by anyone.........however a passing of ways has become necessary at times, in civil manner :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:07

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:07
"Disagreements, personality clashes, unkind and unnecessary words and basic sulkiness between grown-up people saw to that the group split up"

Wonder who said the unkind and unnecessary words in this instance?
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Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 06:41

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 06:41
I have no idea what you are referring to
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael and Chris (QL - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 07:02

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 07:02
Did I read that right, 3 & 1/2 days late finishing a 10 day trip?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:24

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:24
Yeah right!!
You can fool some of the people all the time hey!!

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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:33

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:33
No Michael/Chris

I think he means he got there 3 and a half days after the group that were keen to rush there. Within time frames just taking their time to enjoy. Seems a better way to travel to me.

John I think you're reply was out of sequence. Your reply was to SIF4x4 I think.

Cheers Baz
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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:11

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:11
Correct Baz. We got to all our objectives but the others did not, How do I know this?? by the lack of tyre prints or other signs of human habitat at thee camps.

Regards.............Trouper
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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:13

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:13
Hey Spero???

Could I ask you a couple of questions.

I’d be interested to know what you reckon about mangy currs who create a lot of trouble in the forum and it’s membership, bag the EO site, it’s owners/creators and then noisily run off vowing never to return and swearing and sadly believing that the site would collapse with them. What’s your opinion of the type of people who, knowing they have been banned for some pretty atrocious behaviour, and despite seeding some pretty vile stuff about EO on other social networking forums, feel the need to sneak back onto EO under an alias. Are they being cunning, or malicious, or is it just sad that they can’t face up to the responsibility of how wrong they were and how pathetically empty their life truly is. Speaks volumes in my mind but very keen to hear your opinion.

Also it’s probably sheer coincidence but did you realise that the details of your previous posts on the EO site match to the nth degree the blogged journals of an individual who engaged in the conduct mentioned above? They are on his personal/family website. Amazing bloody coincidence. Perhaps you ran into each other up the Cape way ;-)

Baz
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Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 17:41

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 17:41
Baz....Shocking stuff indeed.

Being only a new visitor to this website I am unaware of some of its history



Cheers

Spero
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 00:45

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 00:45
More than the odd scumbag on the internet these days Baz.
EO has had its fair share of them.

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Follow Up By: Gramps - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:25

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:25
"EO has had its fair share of them"

Don't be too sure it's a case of past tense John, LOL

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Reply By: Axle - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:22

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:22
G/Day Trouper,.. Bit like a school picnic with uncontrolable kids...LOL.


That was a hard task,.. Thats why SWMBO and myself just do everything by our self, and even then trouble can erupt...LOL.



Cheers Axle
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Reply By: Member - hopbush - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:23

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:23
Love travelling completely solo or with one other vehicle max. Too many dramas and disagreements otherwise.
Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:28

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:28
Dont disagree with that one Tony.

Trouper
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Reply By: Hairy (WA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:45

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 19:45
Gday,
I wouldnt consider going on a long trip with people I didnt know well .....especially if it was all planned out day by day.
I might tag along with a group if it suited, but I wouldnt commit to staying If I hadnt camped with them before.
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Reply By: Fab72 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:05

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:05
We managed to pull off a 4 family trip with no major dramas despite everyone having their own agenda.
1 was a keen railway fanatic and loved all railway relics.
1 was a keen landscape photographer (me)
1 just wanted to get the car dirty be doubling back through puddles etc. and
1 was a clock watcher.

How we all managed to get along is beyond me, but we did and all agreed it was the best holiday we had ever had. I guess the fact that we all knew each other before hand and made our own agendas known meant that we all made time for one another....the was the key to keeping everyone happy.

Perhaps trying to assume the role of "leader" was your mistake. It may seem as though it was your agenda and other people's wants/needs weren't accomodated and that they were only there to provide you with a "safety in numbers" sense of security.

Just remeber that the others invested the same amount of money and time into the trip as you did, so they want to get maximun benifit from their investment too.

For the future...either travel alone, screen you companions better, hold meetings to discuss the wants and must dos of everyone or just hook up daily with people travelling the same way as you without commiting to spending days or weeks together...unless you gel well with them.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:26

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:26
I never meant to be leader as everyone had a turn at leading for a day at least day and that worked out OK.

Trouper
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Reply By: Geoff H (Q - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:08

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:08
You're a game man trouper.
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Reply By: get outmore - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:44

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:44
heard of this sort of thing more than a few times even (especially?) within families

rather than look for blame id be more inclined to accept these things happen

personally I think its much better for someone to stand up and say its not working and to split the groups instead of travelling on with a situation that can only deteriate and cause more long term damage

chances are everyone was much happier after the split
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:54

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 20:54
This can happen with the best of friends.

Some time back we made plans to travel from the Gold Coast to WA in the early 1980s.

I spent time having our vehicle prepared and our camping gear ect.

My mate only new where to fill the petrol tank, he new very little about motor vehicles.

He didn't even check the radiator or oil ect before we left.

We only got as far Warwick when his engine over heated and I found his radiator was nearly empty.

Further into the trip he had a flat tyre just out side Broken Hill, and you wouldn't believe it he had no spare tyre.

I had to remove the tyre and drive into Broken Hill to get it repaired,and while I was there bought two second hand spare wheels complete.

We stayed at our inlaws on a wheat property for a couple of days at Mallala in SA
and while we were there I had the use of the work shop to service his vehicle.

I was determined not to go any further until his vehicle was road worthy.

We carried on with out any more trouble until we got to Perth, and then we had we had a difference of opinion on where we wanted to stay.

My mate had 5 kids and we had 2 and his were little outlaws, and accomodation managers wouldn't accept them.

To cut a long story short we parted company for a few days and headed to Geraldton so we could spend some family time by our selves.

Then we met up again and came back home to the Gold Coast, and yes we are still friends.

Cheers




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Reply By: The Landy - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:34

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:34
I suspect that we aren’t talking about a lap around the Corner Country on well formed tracks, but a trip in a remote area that would normally require considerable planning, mind you only those on the trip described here can comment with any insight, but commenting generally and without judgement... Remote area travel presents its own set of risks and difficulties and adherence to a well thought out plan might well be the difference between success and tragedy.

Fundamental to planning for successful outcomes is having an understanding of what the end goal is; having a plan of how the goal will be achieved, strong leadership, and, importantly, everyone signing up to the plan and having an understanding of what is expected of each other. If this can’t be guaranteed than you’re still in the ‘planning phase’ and not ready to leave home.

One of my favourite quotes is from Cecil T Madigan, whom, on crossing the Simpson Desert (The Madigan Line) said “The success of an expedition depends primarily on the preliminary organisation”.

Almost sounds like a throw-away line, until you ponder it a few times, and possibly no truer word spoken...
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Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:49

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 21:49
Conflict within groups touring the outback is quite common as for many people just being in remote areas can be very stressfull. As a trip leader I go expecting it may happen so have a few contingencies to put out spot fires before issues get out of control. Always pays to have an exit stratergy too that allows people to leave.
Despite this my best desert trips were all with groups & even had one very successfull run with over 20 cars & 50 people. Travelling solo simply isn't half as much fun.
Cheers Craig ..........
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 22:55

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 22:55
Look on the bright side Trouper, instead of one larger group with different outlooks, agenda's, personalities, timetables or whatever, there are now two smaller groups with like minded people in each. To me it's a bit like arguing about whether green or blue are better colours. The more people you put into a given scenario the more likely arguments will arise.
Some years ago the good lady wife and I travelled the CSR with friends we had known for many years. The trip took about three weeks, we were in no hurry and we all agreed on a timetable. While the trip was completed without any specific disagreements the friendship has since dissolved. I don't blame either party but admit that maybe three weeks with me could just possibly be as much as anyone can bear. Mind you the wife and I have just celebrated our fortieth wedding anniversary. She must be a very understanding lady.
I would judge myself as a "stop and smell the flowers" type of person.

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: BarryR1 - Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 23:33

Monday, Aug 22, 2011 at 23:33
Damn shame there Trouper. That's an unfortunate experience but it appears to happen. I remember reading this on the EO blog site some time back. Thought he gave pretty good advice actually.

Choosing your travel companions wisely


Baz
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 00:00

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 00:00
Good link Baz.
The bloke in question refereed to in that blog was a guy who professed to be an outback expert.
Turns out his vehicle lacked suitability for such trips and his personal experience clearly matched the lack of trip preparedness of his vehicle.

Its not uncommon that people pretend to be something they are not and that can lead to tension within the group when they are discovered as being frauds.

You just need to be careful who you travel with and ensure you are not suckered by their rhetoric and claimed expertise.





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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:41

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 08:41
Yeah John it seems to be a well written article by MickO. I'd pieced together the story of what happened from a few conversations and articles around the tracks. That old bloke must be a bit delusional from the sounds of it. You're not the bloke that the old chap abandoned in the middle of the desert some years back are you? Reading between the lines he seems to have a bit of a track of abandoning people when things don't go his way. Very sad.

Baz
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Reply By: Member - Jiarna (NT) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 04:44

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 04:44
I can identify with your tale, Trouper. Now I only travel with close friends who have gone the distance. Others get to enjoy my company on short trips or get-togethers. Life's too short to waste it on arguing with people about the 'best' way to travel. I reckon any way is better than staying home!
Cheers
John
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Reply By: Beemer - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 07:32

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 07:32
This reminds me of a recent trip we did in May on the Anne Beadell Track,heading towards Illurka, We had stopped on the side of the track, had not seen anyone for 6 days. Group from SA came along, , 5 or 6 Prados. Did not even stop to say hello, although one in the middle seemed like he wanted to.
For me I was disgusted that out in such an area they could not even say G'day.
The group leader was obviously on a mission. We did hear latter that this group had camped at Ilurka and even their seemed separated as a group.
My thoughts. Smell the flowers so to speak, slow down do a trip to see the country, not let it fly by.
If the SA group are reading this - Shame on you.

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Reply By: Meggs - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:12

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:12
Well there is nothing new there. Ask caravaner do they travel together and the answer is almost invariably no. The norm for caravaner is to meet up in a pre arranged place in 4 or 5 days time not travel together as everyone has different ideas and tastes.
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Reply By: Member - Trouper (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:05

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2011 at 15:05
Landy you are right it was not a drive around the block but very remote, in fact we did not see another vehicle for 10 days!!.
Secondly dont get me wrong everyone had a great time and I intend doing it again with a choosen few.
Thirdly Madigan was quite correct when referring to planning. We used to say in the Army "Use the five P principle........Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance (or is that 6P's). Madigan also wrote "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive" Sorry the journey ended actually.

trouper
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Reply By: BrownyGU - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 00:07

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 00:07
Interesting thread Troup!

My wife, son and I are currently into our 7th month of travelling around OZ, and of the 100's of people we have met and camped next to, you could count on 1 hand the people we would/could travel with, we often walk past large groups of travellers all sitting together laughing and having a ball, but I couldn't see my self spending more than 1 drink with them, It's doesn't matter why, it's just that we are all different, and even the odd couple or family that we have met and clicked with, even if we are travelling in the same direction and on a similar time frame, we only seem to catch up once or twice more through coincidence, and when we make contact through email it is amazing how different our journeys have gone, which just proves even people who you like and have a lot in common with, have slightly different interests and agendas.

I know our scenario is completely different, and I appreciate the need for planning and so on in a trip like yours, but trying to get 5 vehicles (and assume more people) all to get along, when they are all free to do as they like (as apposed to a tag along tour) would be tough.
It sounds like you ended up enjoying yourself anyway, and hopefully the other guys did once they moved on.

Cheers....Browny
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Reply By: pajero 04 - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 09:27

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 09:27
I was on this trip and it was amazing, but makes me laugh when all these ppl are quick to assume what happened u werent there so maybe you should ask what actually happened first b4 making these assumptions. We did make it back in the allocated time frame just the ppl who decided to push made it back 3 1/2 days quicker than we did. Each to their own i guess because i know instead of ripping through because of the boogie man was there and maybe scared of the un known, we took our time to experience what this truly amazing country has to offer and got to see country that no man or women has seen and i guarantee that. So thanks Trouper for an amazing and wonderfull experience and one ill never forget and also to the others that were left with us thankyou for making it what it was as i had never met these ppl b4 and would travel anytime with you. And to those who left us well u had ur reasons to leave and i pity u for the fact that u didnt truly get to experience what this country has to offer in future slow down and take it all in u never know whats around the corner. cheers
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:20

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:20
Sounds like they were in a real rush for sure.
If you planned to do a 10 day trip and they knocked it off in 6 1/2 days, they must have been training for the Paris Dakar!
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Follow Up By: pajero 04 - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 11:20

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 11:20
haha yeah i think so in actuall fact it was half a day late but whats 4 hours amongest friends
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Follow Up By: muffin man - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 14:21

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 14:21
Sounds like the same story as mine below. I can't remember seeing one of the couples even taking a photo. And when we would jump out to look at something they couldn't be even bothered to get out of the car. Everyone to their own but this is why trouble can brew so quickly. Crikey we even have freinds that we wont go touring with but will camp with them in one spot for days.
MM
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Follow Up By: pajero 04 - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 18:20

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 18:20
Read ur story muffin man and yes identical to urs i know it is hard to organise a group and there was 2 ring ins and they were the ones who failed the group i totally understand that not all ppl get on and i thought we were but i feel in absolutely no way do u leave a group wether you like or not as i say suck it up and get on with it, once u reach ur destination u depart ur ways and thats it. But as i said i hadnt met any of the other ppl apart from trouper but the 2 couples that stuck with us to the end could not have been more enjoyable and a pleasure to be around and would travel with them anytime.
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 15:19

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 15:19
also from someone who was on the trip
Actually the people who" rushed" off completed the trip in 8 days compared to the originally planned 10. given that the rest day between camps 11 and 12 occurred on day 4 ( not day 6 as claimed earlier or as originally planned- at this stage we were a couple of days ahead.)we in fact completed the trip from that point on in line with the original timeframe.
if group A finished 3 1/2 days behind us they in fact took that much extra to complete the trip.
Earlier on the day of the split up the whole group was discussing that we would be in birdsville the next day.this was before hitting water 7 1/2 km before camp 20(Kuderee) at 2.30 in the afternoon, and having to go cross country down the west of eyre creek to the simpson bypass at Goonmillera
After the split the break away group took 26 hours to Birdsville The main party must have taken 4 1/2 days .
the extra travel time occurred in the final 160 km from C20 to birdsville not the previous 700 km from Mt Dare to just before C20.

Its also interesting to be described as a "ring in who failed the group"when in fact I completed a hay river trip with the trip leader(original poster) and one of the other parties in 2009 and there were no complaints when he crashed his vehicle and we had to arrange/fund transport of his vehicle and drive his wife 450km to mt isa where he had been airlifted to.
perhaps the whole story should be told or do some have short memories.
Howard
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Reply By: Member - Russnic [NZ] - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:27

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:27
Every one to there own I guess
If my assumptions are correct I have travelled 3 weeks or so with these people, not on roads but out on tracks.
I would have been in this party except the timing did not suit my circumstances.
When one travels with a group sometimes one needs to fit in with others.
The Canberra Guy I know likes to travel faster than I feel comfortable for my set up, but that is good always within UHF range, and scouts out the camp sites, me I tootle along take photos and smell the flowers, the other guy likes to be tail end Charlie so that is not a problem to me.
I would take another trip with them again without a problem.
I know one guy has a satphone and the other has HF, I would presume your group would have been equipped the same.
If I have got this right Hi to Anne and Margaret.
Cheers
Russ
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 20:53

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 20:53
Hi Russ,
correcto it was us,
will tell you about it some time
Just got back tonight from a 25 day trip of flinders /simpson/birsville races/darling river .
If I can get the truck serviced this week its off again on the weekend to Silverton for the gettogether
cheers
howard
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Reply By: muffin man - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 14:15

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2011 at 14:15
We have been on a few trips with strangers from various forums and mostly good.
However one trip we were heading away with another couple and we met prior and agreed on the itinerary and plans etc. The only problem we agreed at the last minute for them to allow their freinds to tag along, big mistake.
Suddenly we were not needed and were in the awkard situation of going solo or sticking with them. Nowadays like everyone else it's solo all the way. I think the only reason they didn't knick off without us was that we had some experience in the area and were the ones with the emergency long distance communication. I think they were more concerned about being on their own than us.
MM
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Reply By: Gramps - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:28

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:28
Yeah, been there done that Trouper. It's a fact of life that you won't always get on with everyone around you 100% of the time. Best to sort out the issues straight away rather than wait for them to fester beyond cure.

Regards
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