the law and gas bottle storage

Submitted: Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:09

ThreadID: 84136 Views:15957 Replies:6 FollowUps:16

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gonebush SA

hi, we went to look at a second-hand caravan today with the shower/toilet, rear kitchen, etc... in it and when we were looking in the front boot we wondered were the gas bottles were, so we followed the gas hoses, (one going both sides of the van) and to our surprise, shock and horror there was a large gas bottle on each side hidden in the bedside cupboards with no ventilation at all and there didn't seem to be any cut-out switches on them. as this van was at a dealer we went inside and said to them nicely that we thought it was illegal to have the gas bottles inside and they should be careful as if someone had an explosion that they might get sued for selling it, she was about to get on her high horse but then just said, oh thanks for telling us, you could tell they wont do anything, she only said thanks to get rid of us, but we worry about the poor suckers that buy the van and they might not know that when laying in bed right next to their head is 2 bombs.
so is it against the law or is it just common sense?
Chris.

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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:14

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:14

Gas bottles must be in a sealed area vented to the outside AT THE BOTTOM of the area.

Did you check to see if this was so.

Doors on caravans also have vents at the bottom for the same reason as LPG gathers at the lowest part of a room.
It is illegal to block this off but is often done as it also lets dust in.

AnswerID: 444308

Follow Up By: gonebush SA - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:28

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:28

there was no ventilation at all, oh i tell a lie, the hole that was drilled through the back of the front boot to the back of the bedside cupboards was about a 2 1/2 inch hole with the hose through the middle of this hole so yes the excess of this hole is the ventilation, and in this van the bedroom (which is at the front of the van) has the en suite in it but it also has a cantilever door to close off the bedroom area, so blocking it in even more.
Chris

FollowupID: 716431

Follow Up By: Member - Jinki & Harry - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:30

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:30

Hi Graham H (QLD) - Re: "Doors on caravans also have vents at the bottom for the same reason as LPG gathers at the lowest part of a room. It is illegal to block this off but is often done as it also lets dust in."

Yes, we sometimes block off the door vent only when travelling and remove cover when stationery in a caravan park. Does help to keep dust out, especially when on unmade roads!!
Jinki

Jinki & Harry enjoying !!!!!

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FollowupID: 716432

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:58

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:58

And what happens if you do that and a joint rattles loose on your rough road

Open the door with a fag in hand and light up your life LOL

To Gone bush.

The ventilation must be in the bottom of the area.

Eg in our Coromal the area in the boot for the gas bottles has a 40mm pipe outlet in the floor and a piece of plastic pipe approx 500mm long venting backwards and downwards from under the boot.

There is a standard for this.

The area must be SEALED OFF FROM THE LIVING AREA and not accessible in anyway from there.

I dont see it getting a gas certificate like that.

Mine failed because someone had wrapped gas tape around a thread on the changeover tap in the boot.

So cant see that van passing.

Ask them to see the gas cert and dob in whoever signed it.

FollowupID: 716441

Follow Up By: gonebush SA - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:06

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:06

the convertion putting the gas bottles inside i would say have been done by the old owner as it use to have the bottles on the A frame and they have put a box on the A frame so i would say moving the gas bottles to do this, the only way to get to the bottles is by opening the bedside cupboard doors.
chris.

FollowupID: 716444

Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:44

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:44

Hi Chris

Which government department deals with gas regulations in SA? Find out and raise the question with them. It may be a genuine danger. Did the caravan have a gas or electric only fridge? When we purchased a camper van in the UK many years ago, gas bottles were inside and there were horror stories. We also had a close call. As soon as we came back to Australia, we had to put the bottles on the outside to meet the regulations here - and that was in 1965.

Motherhen

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AnswerID: 444310

Follow Up By: gonebush SA - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:50

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:50

hi, i don't know who states or regulates the law here on gas starage or if it is against the law (it should be), it had a 3 way fridge, gas hot water service and a full gas stove, so plenty of fire sources. and what if the new owners where the type of people that have a smoke in bed before getting up and the gas has been leaking slowly all night -boom!
chris.

FollowupID: 716438

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:05

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:05

If leakage goes to the inside of the van not to the exterior, it would have to be illegal, and as you say, potential for a big explosion (it has happened).

Do any SA members here know which department deals with these regulations? What are the laws on gas inspections and caravan licensing in SA?

We could not get our camper van licensed in WA back in 1965 with internal gas bottles.

Mh

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FollowupID: 716443

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 17:50

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 17:50

In SA it would be the Office of the Technical Regulator

http://technicalregulator.sa.gov.au/

FollowupID: 716462

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:16

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:16

This link clealy sets out what is required

While not the actual regs it is virtually word for word of them

It costs over $100 to get a copy of the actual document but this one will do

.\Gas regulations for vans

AnswerID: 444316

Follow Up By: gonebush SA - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:32

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:32

so in reading that there are at least 3 problems as the bottles are inside and only able to be excessed from the inside- where it quotes excess to the bottles are only to be from the outside, 2nd the bottles being inside, and 3rd the gas hoses must be moved only by a licensed person, well obviously the person wasn't licensed and if they were they shouldn't be. but where do these things get reported to as i think i will report to hopefully save someone either life or money.
Chris.

FollowupID: 716447

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:46

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:46

Do you mean ACCESSED as in able to be reached or EXCESS as in to much of something. Presumably the first.

The gas hoses can be attached and removed by yourself

"Any work " means alteration or re installation of the lines.

I changed mine from flexible to copper pigtails which technically is an illegal modification.

This link will tell you who to advise about this

Govt dept SA

FollowupID: 716449

Follow Up By: Mark R - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 08:08

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 08:08

Graham,

I think you mean "TOO much of something"...LOL couldn't resist

FollowupID: 716501

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 10:19

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 10:19

Fair enough LOL

FollowupID: 716512

Follow Up By: gonebush SA - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 11:46

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 11:46

sorry got my spelling wrong, i'll try better next time, good job i'm human and can make mistakes.

FollowupID: 716523

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 13:00

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 13:00

Thats Ok I didnt do much better LOL

FollowupID: 716529

Reply By: TTD1 - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 20:28

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 20:28

gonebush

The relevant Australian Standard for LP gas installations is AS1596 2008 and that covers caravans and boats including diagrams but the catch is it costs $200.
But if you Google Installations in caravans you will get the Office of gas safety in Vic and that will give you all you need to know.
The catch is every state has a different slant on it and a different intereptation of the code.
Having worked in the trade up and down the coast I had at one time 5 different state licences to work and certify installations
Regards
TTD1

AnswerID: 444340

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 21:12

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 21:12

The documents I found were AS 5601 and sec 6 covered Vans

So I dont know but thats what is in the link I provided.

FollowupID: 716475

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 21:16

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 21:16

As per here

LPG gas installations in motorhomes and caravans:
• Are to be performed by a qualified gas fitter
• Must be in accordance with the requirements of Australian Standard AS 5601 – Gas installations
• Must have a Certificate of Compliance provided by a qualified gas fitter.
A qualified gas fitter should be consulted regarding the location of gas cylinders and the design of
gas cylinder compartments and the type of appliances to be installed.
Note:
• LPG appliances must not be supplied with gas from autogas vehicle fuel systems.
Australian Standard AS5601 – Section 6 contains information regarding
o Location of gas cylinders
o Gas cylinder compartments
o Prohibited appliances
o Fluing requirements
o Air supply to appliances (ventilation) and
o Consumer Instruction displayed near cylinders and appliances.

Was a bit older than the date you have though

FollowupID: 716477

Reply By: SDG - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 00:11

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 00:11

And don't forget that the bottles need to be tested every few years.

AnswerID: 444363

Reply By: John and Lynne - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 11:18

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 11:18

Recently we were amazed to see two gas bottles installed between the van and its rear bumper! It was a new van and the owner was quite relaxed about this installation - it seemed this was done in the factory to help balance the weights.
It seemed hazardouis to us! Surely gas cylinders are more danderous than jerry cans of petrol which are not to be carried on the rear of a van.
Is this actually illegal? Lynne

AnswerID: 444399

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 22:02

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 22:02

Hi Lynne

Re :"Recently we were amazed to see two gas bottles installed between the van and its rear bumper!"" End quote

I believe that is legal as long as they do not protrude beyond the rear bumper bar.
Peter

FollowupID: 716604