Earth Leakage in Camper Trailers

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:12
ThreadID: 8296 Views:3736 Replies:5 FollowUps:13
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G'day

I recently bought an old pop-up style camper trailer. It has a 240v outlet which has a short run through the front of the trailer to a double power point on the facia inside.

When I have been working underneath the van and it is connected to 240v I have noticed that I get a tingling senation when I touch certain areas of the chassis. I am wondering if this could be earth leakage?

I have a mutli meter but am a complete novice when it comes to electricity. Is there a test I can perform to check if live current is passing through the chassis of the trailer?
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Reply By: Member - Ross - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:40

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:40
Remember the old adage .... "One flash and you're ash"

For Christ's sake call a sparky before you kill yourself!!!Rosco
AnswerID: 36150

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:46

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 08:46
P.S

And while you're at it, get him to install an ELCB... if it doesn't already have one. If it does it's not working.Rosco
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 11:04

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 11:04
check it on 240/250v scale with the multimeter to an independant earth, (one attched to a stake stuck in the ground) and then check it to the chassis, stick ya mm probe into the three holes of the 240v outlet and the other end to the chassis and then to the independant earth, if ya se the needle move, then trouble is afootLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
AnswerID: 36162

Follow Up By: mudgutz - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 13:30

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 13:30
empty mate disregard this post.....hes wrong......has 1/2 idea what hes doing..........
mate if had one side of my meter to earth and was putting the other end into the power piont and the needle didnt move in at least one of the holes to show 240 i would be wondering why.....
also if i had one side to the chassis and the other to the gpo( power piont) i would also expect 240 from one of the holes..........thats presuming the earth is good on the van and at the switchboard....thats why i said for you to get a sparks mate i think its a bad earth in combination with a crook appliance
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 14:20

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 14:20
yer, listen to mud gutz ya gotta know what ya looking atLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Reply By: mudgutz - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 13:17

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 13:17
i am a sparky by trade..
there can be many things which cause a tingle as you put it in the chassis of a van
this i am certain of
1 bad earth van or no earth van or
2 bad earth house ( connected to van with lead)
3 a bad appliance or cable or fitting in the van breaking down to earth

get a sparky...... this situation is very dangerous.....if the earth/appliance gets worse that voltage level may change from a tingle to a big bite .....and if your lying on the ground.. you will become the path which the current tries to use to get back to earth and we will be at your wake.
also......elcb.....its actually an rcd which has to be fitted to the van.......and which is fitted to houses under the guise of an elcb...its actually a device which measures
what goes in on the active and if what comes out on the nuetral is not the same ..off she goes....also i think double pole switches are required by law on vans

AnswerID: 36179

Follow Up By: Empty - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 15:41

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 15:41
Thanks

I will get an electrician involved. Just out of interest what is the risk of explosion from a 9kg gas bottle mounted on the chassis whilst there is an earth leak like this?
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FollowupID: 26085

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 18:52

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 18:52
too highLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Follow Up By: Brett - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:12

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:12
No real risk as the bottle will be at the same potential as the rest of the van. The only risk would be if there were a gas leak and something of a different potential were able to complete the circuit ( ie. a human standing on the ground with bare feet who goes to touch the bottle).

The risk is only a great as the ability of the fault to create a spark.

Having said that if the bare footed bloke were to jump up onto the drawbar of the van with both feet at the same time then he would be the same potential as the gas bottle and there for no sparks. Just like the bird on the powerlines.

As for the cause of the problem.

If you want to test the earth hook the van up in the normal way.
Run another extension lead out to the van and use your multimeter to measure any difference in potential between the earth of the van via a powerpoint and the earth on the second extension lead. You shoule not be able to read anything as, in reality you are measuring the same wire. If you get a reading you have a van earth prob.

That is not the end of it. You will still have an active or neutral fault somewhere as you can only get a tingle if one of these wires is exposed and contacting something it shouldn't. The earth is only there to carry faults.

Cheack for moisture around the terminal box and powerpoints. Make sure the van is totally disconnected from power before doing this...

Better still get an electrician to do it...........
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Reply By: Brett - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:23

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 19:23
Oh and the advice re the RCD is good. There is no point in getting a device where the quality of the earth impacts on it's operation( remember your van is sitting on tyres and rubber is an insulator) so the best type of system is a comparitive one which "looks" at what goes up the active and down the neutral. If what goes up doesn't come down the unit assumes it has gone to earth and then trips out.

E arth
L eakage
C ore
B alance

= ELCB
AnswerID: 36216

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 18:20

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 18:20
R esidual
C urrent
D evice

= RCD?

E arth
L eakage
C ircuit
B reaker

= ELCB?Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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FollowupID: 26215

Follow Up By: Brimo - Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 16:44

Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 16:44
Earth leakage core balance
Earthleakage circuit breaker
Both are correct core balance is the old term

Love Brimo (another sparky)

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FollowupID: 26442

Follow Up By: Old Jack - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 18:48

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 18:48
Brett, just a little information about the tyres on the trialer are in fact not truely an insulator, vehical tyres contain a certian amount of carbon (steel) that is an excellant conductor! while the tyres are not great conductors they can infact conduct sufficient current at mains voltage to be regarded as a path to earth just like the average pair of boots full of sweat conduct enough to kill if you touch a live conductor!

I have seen a fork lift driven into a cable and the conductors touched the tyres when they fell and where arcing on the surface of the tyre(driver sitting tight SH*******g himself while where shut down the power)

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FollowupID: 27217

Follow Up By: Brett - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 19:03

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 19:03
Jack you are correct.
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Reply By: Member - Paul H - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 21:15

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 21:15
Working for an electrical wholesaler, we are told not to offer any electrical advice to people (sparky's or not). I think the same of this forum, ie; you shold not offer any advice in these areas. I would suggest that you call an electrician to look at the problem.
I'm not having a go at anyone, Just think its a situation that should be handled by a professional directly. Not by corrospondance.
Just my POV

PMK Next trip please..............................................
AnswerID: 36228

Follow Up By: Brett - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 22:39

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2003 at 22:39
Yes you are correct.

Empty read the info and when you talk to the electrician subtly suggest some of the above. He may think twice about trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
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FollowupID: 26132

Follow Up By: Empty - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 07:31

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2003 at 07:31
Thanks Brett and others.

All good advice. Rest assured I will call in an electrician. The reason I asked the question in the first place is because the tingle is so slight I thought I may be imagining it and therefor a simple (and safe) test may have given me some reassurance.

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FollowupID: 26145

Follow Up By: Brimo - Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 16:54

Saturday, Nov 08, 2003 at 16:54
You can still get a tingle even when an rcd is fitted as it takes 30 miiliamps to trip one of these. This is below the lethal level so is safe but will still let you know you've got a problem.(not really the best way to find out) Should any of you out there experience this be sure to get onto a sparky soonest. DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN TRYING TO DO LIVE TESTING UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO DO SO TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY.

Just my threepence worth.

love Brimo(a sparky who will not pull the wool over your eyes even if you asked me nicely)
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FollowupID: 26443

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