Perpetual motion? I dont believe it

Submitted: Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 18:57
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Was away on the weekend and was talking about a compressor that had a small generator built onto the end of the unit, you connect it to your battery and connect the generator leads BACK TO THE SAME BATTERY and then while you are inflating your tyres the generator is generating at 12v and putting back what the generator is taking out. I thought p-shaw that wont work, but apparently the compressor generator runs batteries down much slower than a normal max-air or something along those lines. I don't understand the physics but I want one
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Reply By: StormyKnight - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 18:59

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 18:59
Neither do I!
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Reply By: blue one - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:06

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:06
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

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Reply By: Glenndini - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:21

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:21
Wow. I'm convinced.
Quick buy shares in it. As many as you can. The inventor will up for several Nobel prizes. Physics books will have to re-written. Hell, if physics has been that wrong, the universe might not even exist as we know it.

oh, wait a minute........
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:23

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:23
Bonz,

Can I interest you in a bridge crossing Sydney Harbour that I have for sale?

:-)
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:30

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:30
Boobook,
you talkin about that little culvert that sits over that bore drain.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:20

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:20
Can I get one in Red? Seriously, the same colour as a little red compressor
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Reply By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:29

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:29
Oh Bonz, Bonz, Bonz..............

If you don't believe it, then why on earth would you want one?

People have been inventing and promoting stuff like this for hundreds of years yet we are still paying increasing amounts for our electricity!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:22

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:22
only Al cause there has to be something to it, I understand the intricacies of transmitting power and heat and energy, maybe it works like a heat pump or something
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Reply By: Mick O - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:37

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:37
Mate if only I'd had one on recent trips. I reckon I could have powered the entire East Coast ha ha ha

Hey perhaps I could have paid for my trip be selling it back to the grid! ;-)
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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:57

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 19:57
It wasn't marketed by Firepower, was it?

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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 20:00

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 20:00
Gday Bonz
I remember talking about the very same thing not long back. I recon that it can be done. You just need a generator that puts out more than the electric motor sucks.
Easy peasy.
Murray
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Reply By: Member - Rob Mac (QLD) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 20:32

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 20:32
Hi Bonz, that sounds similar to something I read a while back about electric cars? /hybrid that when you decelerate/brake it generates current back to batteries?
Cheers
Rob Mac
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Follow Up By: dereki - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:26

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:26
That is EMF braking, where the momentum of the car is used to generate power as the car slows down instead of the energy being lost in heat in brake pads.

There is no external energy being added to the system above.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:17

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:17
yep Rob thats re-generative braking, and its quite inefficient, it makes just enough power to run the screen telling you that the power is running into the battery... just
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Reply By: Greenguzzi - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:20

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:20
For this to work the generator/compressor would have to give more energy to the battery+tyres than it takes out of the battery.

So it either has to be greater than 100% efficient (which is impossible - it's the reason perpetual motion machines don't exist). Or it must be getting energy from somewhere other than the battery.

So if someone can show me where the extra energy is coming from then I'll believe it. Otherwise it's a con.

It's high school physics.
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Reply By: dereki - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:35

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:35
This system can not gain anything, in fact it will loose more power through inefficiencies in the generation process, conversion from AC to DC, having to spin the extra weight, not to mention friction in the bearings etc.

If it worked you could get 2 DC motors, connect the shafts together, connect the electrical terminals to each other, spin it and watch it go forever.

D
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:19

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:19
thats what I said to the guy Derek, why cant you just connect the generating cables to the clamps for the power cables for the compressor and then when its running, disconnect the compressor clamps and keep it running on the generated power. Seems logical to me
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Follow Up By: phil300 - Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:49

Monday, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:49
Gee is it April all ready I must have over slept.
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Follow Up By: StormyKnight - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 21:52

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 21:52
...its early this year...:)
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Reply By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 02:39

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 02:39
So--whats the battery for?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 17:55

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 17:55
well I was informed that the battery is required to run the compressor and to provide the initial power to overcome the compressor/generator inertia
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Reply By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 07:33

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 07:33
me thinks someone has bought a couple of million of these things really cheap and now wants to off load em...really cheap....

If i wasnt born yesterday I'd believe it would work
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:12

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:12
The same company just released 2 other products

1) a solar setup using solar panels and super efficient LED lights.

You connect the LED's to the panel and make sure they shine on to it. You connect the cables to a battery and it will charge it without the need for the sun.

The only issue is that you have to be careful that you don't over charge the battery, the LEDs are very efficient.

2)A 12V inverter connected to a 240v to 12V battery charger. The 12V to 240W charger is 200W and the battery charger is 600W. That leaves 400 Watts left to charge the battery that it is connected to.


Great products.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:15

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:15
Please post a link so we can do a group buy and sell the power back to the grid.

Do they supply shades so the neighbours arent kept awake at night with the million super efficient LEDs shing in their bedroom windows..
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:35

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:35
Graham,

I made some enquiries about a group buy.

Too late I am afraid. You gotta be quick on these things. The manufacturer just told me that they are not in a position to accept new orders for a while.

They just received a $2.4 Billion order from a Mr P Garrett of Canberra and their production line is full.

Base load Solar generation is the new thing.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:46

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 09:46
Must be back dated then as Mr P Garret was removed from that portfolio some time ago and has now been given the chance to stuff up schools or something hasnt he.


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Reply By: Steve63 - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:25

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:25
Conservation of energy means this will acutually run your battery down faster because of losses from friction and the inefficiency in the generation process. It takes energy to move the generator which needs to be provided by the motor of the compressor. The only way the claim could be true is if the compressor drew less power than the "comparison" unit. Now if they used "waste" energy like the heat the compressor generated using thermocouples then maybe they would be on to something (small).

Steve
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Reply By: wortgames - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:56

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 08:56
Are you talking about one of these?

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3594

I think someone's having fun with you.

Any 'load' (ie, the taking of power) places a demand on the source. Simple. That's why your engine revs drop when your aircon cuts in. You don't get free power just because something is already spinning!
AnswerID: 430939

Reply By: franken - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:06

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:06
Of course it will work, haven't you heard of a compressed air motor. Make sure your tyre is at 100psi to start with and just disconnect when your tyre pressure is at the correct (lower) setting. Bonz just got the original blurb wrong, it should have read "while you are deflating your tyres..."
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Follow Up By: Life Member - steve. B... (NSW - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 13:30

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 13:30
I think that this what the system uses

Regenerative power unit

A regenerative power unit feeds back the regenerative energy of a drive into the supply system.(battery )

The released energy is not dissipated but fed back into the supply system, which saves energy.
This is especially suitable for this application.


The Gloss Over........

Increased motor efficiency
Increased inverter efficiency
Energy-efficient design of options/functions
Use of released, regenerative energy
Direct use of energy in other areas
Regeneration of energy
Energy storage

This unit will be on the market very soon.

Watch out for it at your local Bunnings Store.




Conclusion:
When using a regenerative power unit, the regenerative energy of a drive can be used by other consumers, which saves ener

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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 16:22

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 16:22
It will happen one day and I would say magnetism will be the driving force - but no one has discovered it yet :-)

By its aid (Magnetism) we may be able to traverse time and space easily and quickly

:-)
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Reply By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 17:45

Tuesday, Sep 21, 2010 at 17:45
Bonz, you are about to become a millionaire!! Alls you need do is sell it to the Qld Govt!!
They are slowly moving with the times up that way, but electricity would really help them as it would bring our Northern cousins in line with the rest of Oz.
Just imagine the money we would all save buy not having to buy batteries, generators & solar panels every time we ventured over the border. LOL & cheers.
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