Brake failure

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 19:15

ThreadID: 51745 Views:6357 Replies:6 FollowUps:5

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landseka

I have just this week had all disk pads replaced and had a new master cylinder fitted as the garage could not get a satisfactory pedal by bleeding so they diagnosed a faulty cylinder.

They said the pedal was still spongy but this is "typical landcruiser".
Four days later towing my caravan down the steep hill into Merimbula the pedal went to the floor, thank goodness for the van brakes which is all that stopped us going through the T junction at the bottom.

On speaking to the NRMA patrolman he said he believes there is some gadget that needs to be connected to the computer during the bleeding process as the car has ABS.
Has anyone heard of this? Obviously the garage hadn't.

The car is being transported to a Toyo dealer tomorrow so hopefully they know what to do.

It seems to be something to watch out for.

Regards

Neil & Lynne

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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 20:01

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 20:01

Many vehicles fitted with ABS have a specific bleeding procedure

My Jackaroo has ABS, and to bleed the brakes requires the ABS fuse to be removed, and the engine must be running, and the bleeding should be in the prescribed sequence. I have done this a number of times as I like to completely replace the brake fluid once a year to keep moisture out and reduce corrosion (not to mention retain proper braking ! )

I doubt that the Toyota has a spongy pedal inherently - sounds a bit like the garage you used was below par.

AnswerID: 272377

Reply By: Member - Douglas M (SA) - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 22:35

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 22:35

hi landseka,
If the correct bleed procedure is not followed a lot of expensive damage can be done to these. I have assumed it is a 100 series landcruiser. I would be interested to hear how you get on with the problem and what caused it in the first place. I have also assumed that the problem only occurred after the brake pad replacement. If this is so I would suggest that some damage was done to the system when the pistons were pushed back into the to take the new pads ie. fluid was force backwards through the ABS controller. I have done a lot of work on brakes but I would not dare to touch late model ABS systems without adequate training. I hope your holiday hasn't been ruined and let us know how you get on.
Doug

AnswerID: 272426

Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 22:54

Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 22:54

I know for sure a certain Toyota dealership in Sydney just push the pads back whack in new pads, wash down the excess fluid that has come back up over the top of the master cylinder then pump the pedal a few times and test drive, ring customer car is ready. Will be interesting to see what the reason for the brake failure was. When the front pads were replaced in my prado they were done exactly as I described above. Mmmm might make a phone call to brake specialist tomorrow and see what there procedure is for a vehicle with ABS. Glad to hear you managed to pull your van and vehicle up with out any incident. Regards Steve M

AnswerID: 272430

Follow Up By: Member - Douglas M (SA) - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 09:48

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 09:48

Hi Steve,
Some automotive finishes these days seem to be resistant to brake fluid but I certainly wouldn't be taking my vehicle to a "mechanic" who as a matter of routine was going to spill brake fluid under my bonnet and then attempt to clean up the mess with meths or water. It is much quicker and easier to remove some of the fluid from the reservoir with a sucker bottle and top it up again as the job is finished. For landseker's sake I hope you are right about the likelihood of there being no damage to the ABS controller. Let us know what you find out with the phone call.
Doug

FollowupID: 535731

Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 15:27

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 15:27

Ok, rang 4 brake places today, all brake specialist, first one, what a crock of sh@t, second, must be playing with themselves, third,where the fu@k did you hear that from, the third laugh,laugh,laugh, where did you hear that from ??. They all said its just a standard brake pad replacement, suck a bit of fluid out so it doesnt spew over while fitment of new pads take place. The usual push the pistons back in, no disconection of brake lines,no computer hook ups, even when replacing master cylinder same thing, except obviously bleed the sytem in the usual way, some one inside pushing the pedal while the other opens and closes the bleed valve. Did say it takes a bit longer to bleed with the ABS over a standard system. Dont shoot Im just repeating exactly what I was told today, wether people believe this or change pads in there own way is up to the individual. Regards Steve M

FollowupID: 535779

Follow Up By: Member - Douglas M (SA) - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 22:58

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 22:58

Hi Steve,
You'd better read reply 6 and then remember the 4 places you rang so that you can never go to them ;-)
Doug

FollowupID: 535901

Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 at 06:26

Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 at 06:26

Hi Doug, I'm going to agree with you totally on this one. I must have been lucky that my ABS unit was not stuffed. As Scott has mentioned in reply 6 I will be visiting him next time. Only around the corner from me. Phew Im glad my'n is alright I would imagine an ABS unit would not be cheap. I have heard the ones on the series 2 of the 95 series are apparantly around 3g as they control the traction control as well. I might let you know that my pads were replaced by Toyota but I did supply the Bendix pads to them. There was no bleeding or anything of the like. Regards Steve M

FollowupID: 535923

Reply By: landseka - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 14:16

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 14:16

Further to the brake saga, it looks like Doug is on the money, the abs controller is cactus for whatever reason, maybe the procedure of pushing the old pads back to make room for new pads as Doug suggested.

Thats the good news, we now know the cause of the failure.

The bad news is a new controller is not available in oz, it is ex japan for approx $3000 thanks very much and roughly 3 weeks delivery.

It seems that this specific controller is unique to 40th anniversary petrol cruisers so finding a used unit is difficult.

Thankfully my RAC classic cover will pay for the caravan park for the duration and also pays for a hire car for the period.

Oh well, there are much worse places to be stuck for 3 weeks than Merimbula.

Regards

Neil & Lynne

AnswerID: 272517

Reply By: landseka - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 21:12

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 21:12

Late this afternoon we got onto a second hand unit in Melbourne for $495, it will be here Thursday. Hopefully we'll be on the road by the weekend.

What is that sound I hear??? Could it be my knees knocking???

Regards

Neil & Lynne

AnswerID: 272605

Reply By: Member - 120scruiser (NSW) - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 22:25

Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 22:25

With ABS equipped vehicles you should not just push the pistons back into the calipers as the backwards motion of the fluid can wreck the ABS unit.
In my workshop we crack the bleed nipple and then push the pistons back so excess fluid will exit out the caliper and not back up through the system.
When we bleed brakes we use an air bleeder system so no pedal movement is used at all.
As Landcruiser master cylinders and ABS units are very expensive we make sure we abide by this.
Scott

AnswerID: 272632