Gas Bottle stowing ??

Submitted: Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:16
ThreadID: 44374 Views:13465 Replies:14 FollowUps:22
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Seeing as it's a no-no to carry LPG bottles inside a vehicle- what are the options for safely stowing the bottle exterior?? Occy strapped down on the roof rack?? Rope tied to the bullbar?? Dragging behind the vehicle on a length of chain??
I think ours is a 4kg job, about 250mm dia and 300+mm high.
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:21

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:21
I was under the same impression as you but I read on a sign the other day at the servo that anything over 25kg needs to be carried outside of the vehicle. I always put mine on the roofrack to be on the safe side though.
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:29

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:29
Hi Troll
How do you secure the bottle on the rack???
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Follow Up By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:32

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:32
I normally use 2 ratchet straps and it doesn't move. But I have seen gas bottles holders at the shop the other day for about $50 that you can bolt onto something
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 14:07

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 14:07
I think roof rack may be illegal, I know they banned roof mounted lpg gas tanks.
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Reply By: Member - Tonester (VIC) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:40

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:40
ha. I like the bullbar option. Just make sure you tailgate a truck through the Melb tunnel when you do it to be safe :-)
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:52

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:52
Mate..you'd be surprised as to what some people hang off the bullbars. I've even seen some u-beaut jerry can holders integrated into the bullbar. Don't know if for water or fuel- but I would assume the latter.!!!
My suggestion (as to placement of LPG bottles) was very 'tongue-in-cheek'.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tonester (VIC) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:55

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:55
naaaah. surely you were serious... Don't believe you
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Follow Up By: CLC50 - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:41

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:41
Hi all I carry my on Rear Tyre Carrier in Bottle carriers bolted to 100 x 25mm Aluminium



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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:50

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:50
whys it a no no? certainly isnt illegal (for the sort of size bottle you are talking about) and if it leaks - well that is why they put that smelly stuff in it even the smallest leak will be detected
AnswerID: 233811

Follow Up By: Smudger - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 13:57

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 13:57
LPG is a heavy gas, when it escapes it doesn't float, it drops to the deck and can build up before you can smell it. Sometimes you don't get the chance to smell it. I saw a car incinerated once when a gas bottle leaked inside the boot. The Firies reckoned it was caused by a spark, possibly when th bottle rolled and banged into somethin else. People died. That's why it's a no no!
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Reply By: Teabag (Queanbeyan) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:54

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 16:54
Inside a milk crate on your roof rack. Strap the milk crate to the roof rack and 2 small occy straps to secure the gas bottle within the milk crate....Has worked for me for years though I have now gone to the Coleman disposables and I carry this inside the rear _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx....No valve to open......
AnswerID: 233812

Reply By: Mike Harding - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:16

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:16
Carried mine inside the vehicle for years - I worry far less about gas bottles than when I have 25lt of petrol behind the drivers seat.

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 233815

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:46

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:46
9ltr gas bottle, 4 jerry cans and a carton of Peter Jacksons all inside.

Been doin it for years.

Waiting for a call from Bin Laden.......hehehe.

Cheers.....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:05

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:05
Remind me to stand upwind from you...hahahahahaha

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:20

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:20
Yep, I'd agree with that one Willem but not because of the LPG or petrol, more the fact that I'm partial to cheese & onion sandwiches and I can tell you, they aint partial to me......hehehe..

Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:31

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:31
I'm talkin about the Peter Jacksons, mate...lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:07

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:07
Hey Lionel, You won't notice the smell if you keep goats !
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Reply By: Willem - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:08

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:08
A bloke posted a pic here yesterday of his rear wheel carrier and it had twin gasbottles on it. Can't remember which post or who tho..:-)

I used to carry one above my spare wheel on the G60 inside a paint tin. These days they are stowed in the trailer.

Cheers
AnswerID: 233827

Follow Up By: CLC50 - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:27

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:27
HI
Its up above
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Reply By: navaraman - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:08

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:08
I have to take the Oxy-Acetylene out of the car to make way for the camping gas cylinder when I go bush.

Patrolman Pat
AnswerID: 233828

Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:24

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:24
Signman ,
I was not happy with it anywhere inside and didi not want it on the roof - so I issued my gas stove with a redundancy notice and went to a Shellite stove from Colman . I think it works better than the gas stove .
Willie
AnswerID: 233837

Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:50

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 18:50
Signman,

I concur with teabag. Used cable ties to attach milkcrate to roofrack and then two occy straps to hold the bottle in. If you use ratchet straps through the neck, be careful they don't rub against the valve control lest you may arrive at the next camp with no gas (not that I've ever had that happen.....twice!). Cheers Mick.
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AnswerID: 233843

Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:11

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:11
My mate can vouch for the strength of cable ties. He tied a spare vehicle key under his waggon and when he needed it (on the beach) he couldn't get it off the cable tie. The waggon was locked and he had no access to tools or a knife :-))
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Follow Up By: Member - Arkay (SA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:55

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:55
Cable ties do get brittle after a while, especially when exposed to the sun all the time as they would be on a roof rack. Be sure to replace the original ties on a regular basis.
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Reply By: kimprado - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:02

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:02
Signman

Here are the two things I'm looking for:

1. Roof top quick release gas bottle holder (various sizes).
2. Roof rack axe holder.

On the serious side, I spent 9 years in the petroleum industry and during that time we were subjected to many safety demonstrations (including gas).

The most memorial was a 2 litre container of petrol, which was allowed to get a half head of vapour. This was ignited in a relatively small environment. The result left me totally stunned and I'll never forget it.

The result of a half filled 20 litre container exploding inside a vehicle defies imagination.

If plastic fuel containers are carried on the roof rack in hot weather they should be vented (well away from an ignition source) regularly. This doesn't apply to Diesel.

Regards

Kim
AnswerID: 233845

Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:27

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 19:27
g'day Kim,

as you probably know, what (it sounds like) happened is known as a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion.) The container could no longer contain the vapour as the liquid was heated and changed to create more vapour, expanded. Eventually the container ruptures and WHOOOOOOOMP!!!!!!!

same thing can happen with lpg, but if the container is allowed to vent then as long as it can keep ahead of the vapourizing lpg then eventually it will burn out.

i've seen some truly frightening videos of fixed and mobile plant going up this way, I never want to be anywhere near one. i'm not telling you a thing I'm sure.

as you say, venting is necessary (well away from an ignition source), otherwise you get a PUVCE (Percussive Unconfined Vapour Cloud Explosion).....like lighting your gas bbq and losing your eyebrows....on a small scale....
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Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:05

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:05
The best answer I have found for attaching both my axe and my shovel to the roofrack are rubber clamps called "Quickfist" available for about $25 per pair at ARB. I have 2 sets of 2 simply cable tied to my racks, 2 for the axe and 2 for the shovel.

Try this site:
Quickfist

Hope that link worked, otherwise paste this: Site Link

Cheers
Trev
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Follow Up By: Trevor M (SA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:08

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 22:08
If you click on my rig pic you can see how they are set up

Trev
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:28

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:28
bushfix, have you seen that old 16mm film of the BLEVE in the US taken some time in the early 1970's? It was about a rail car fire and they were trying to remove heat from the equation by cooling the steel of the propane tanks with water from hook and ladder truck? This effectively circumvented the blow off valves and caused metal failure in the pressure vessel. WOOOMPAHH!! We watched it as part of the course for St John's training when I was doing my ambo's ticket.

The coroners report and explanation of the chain of events made for very scary viewing. Wouldn't mind seeing it again actually. It made for good viewing.

As you wisely say, run like hell and don't look back.
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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 06:54

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 06:54
G'day V8,

yes i remember that one, frightening. I recall that large bits of the tanks etc. were found hundreds of metres away in a paddock.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 07:29

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 07:29
Blev's make incredible tv viewing but are very rare. The conditions required are that the metal tank must be so hot that the metal becomes plastic and allows the internal pressure to blow a hole in the side of the tank. You would have to have the tank in an intense fire for quite some time or have a oxy torch playing on one spot on the wall of the tank for some time. A gas leak however may form an explosive atmosphere condition and would be far more of a danger when storing a gas cylinder in a vehicle. If the cylinder is well secured and the tap is firmly off you should have no worries.
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Reply By: kimprado - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:16

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:16
Bushfix

Yes, I think people get a bit blasé around fuel and gas. However, we also had some funny experiences (not at the time).

In one of my depots I decided to conduct a gantry safety exercise. Without going into a long story, we placed a driver behind the rear wheels of a truck at the gantry (he was blown off the truck and a fire started). The only people who had knowledge of this were the driver, myself and the CFA chief.

What transpired after that was Keystone Cop stuff. The fire crew nearly suffocated and drowned the poor buggar. Had to give him a couple of days off to get over it.

On another occasion (in another town), the municipal leaders, CFA and I decided to overturn an old degassed tanker on a main highway and conduct an exercise. Well, let me tell you this did not go down well with the touring public or State authorities. The locals thought it was a real buzz, but my CEO had a serious blood pressure problem for some time.

Regards

KIm

AnswerID: 233863

Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:32

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 20:32
he he he

reminds me...

you must have seen that video of the foam excercise (in a hangar) where it just keeps rising, and rising and rising.....
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Reply By: Go-N-Grey (WA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:12

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:12
Interesting comments!

I just recently purchased a new caravan complete with two jerry can holders on the rear bumper.

There is a sticker attached to then saying "Do not carry inflammable liquids in these holders"

If anyone runs up the back of my rig through inattention they deserve to die, I dont stop in a hurry with over 6 tonne all up weight.

Have carried 20lites diesel, 10 litres of Petrol (for gennie) and a spare 4.5kg gas cylinder on the rear bumper of my old Jayco poptop for years.

Is this illegal? and when were the regs changed
AnswerID: 233911

Follow Up By: kimprado - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:47

Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 23:47
I think you're missing the point. Does'nt matter if its illegal or if you've got away with it for a long time. Chit happens!

Have a re think about safety.

Regards

KIm

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Reply By: Member - Sam (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 08:42

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 08:42
i have one of the opposite lock gas bottle holders, made up some metal clamping plates and the holder clamps to the roof rack. bottle sits in without moving at all. i had to extend the clamping ring and I also put some of that sticky backed foam around the clamping ring to stop any rubbing and to also give extra grip. bottle made it over the Simpson and surrounds without budging an inch. i can shake the whole truck by the bottle without it coming out.
AnswerID: 233936

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