15 amp plug in caravan

Perry further to my answer the have always been 15amp since i was a boy mmmmmmm.Anyway the newly developing c/parks are supoed to be 10amp not sure if this is happening yet though.On the building sites we have to have 15amp leads but with 10amp plugs.I cannot explain all the reason of bull bleep that goes with but this is how it is.
Cheer's Mate.Bob.:)

Hi Bob,
Mate, I feel about as good as you look, lol. Thanks for asking though.
Sorry mate I didn't explain properly, I have a lead for the van but it has 15 amp plugs on the ends, that won't plug into any house hold power points.
I was just going to modify one of my own 15 amp leads with a 10 amp male on one end but wasn't sure if this was safe, to tell the truth, I wasn't so worried about the 'legal' bit, just the safety side of it, but you knowing me would probably have already figured that :-))
Gotta catch up again soon, just between you, me and the puter, I think Trev has something on the drawing board :-)))

Cheers mate
Pezza

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the reply, I was going to do something similar and modify a 15 amp lead with a 10 amp male to suit the house but wasn't sure of the safety implications of such a move, I wasn't sure if I was going to melt the 10 amp plug when I turn on the aircon in the van or something similar.
Going by a yours and a few other answers though, it seems to work just fine, so unless someone tells me I'll risk burning the house down, it seems like a plan.

Cheers
Pezza

Nothing illegal about plugging 15 amp lead into 10 amp socket, the lead will carry the current supplied by the 10 amp socket. 10 amp outlets generally protected by 16 amp circuit breaker, 15 amp by a 20 amp breaker. Fit 10 amp male plug to lead or file earth pin (better to fit 10 amp plug) Van can only draw current available from outlet ie. 16 amps from 10 amp outlet and 20 from 15 amp outlet, no need to worry about over loading the lead. Would be different using 10 amp lead in 15 amp outlet. Qualified sparky for 20+ years

hope this helps

Shane

Hi slawsy65

"Qualified sparky for 20+ years" ?? If you recomend "Fit 10 amp male plug to lead or file earth pin...." then you need to go back to school ! Not only is this ilegal but it is very dangerous and I doubt that you understand the reasoning behind the regulations.

Im with you Kiwi Kia, im a 4th year sparky, and have recently done all this sorta crap in trade school.. You have a 15A load, which is your caravan... You CANNOT fit off a 10A 3 Pin Plug onto the end, alot of people do it, and alot of people say its fine, but it is NOT 'OK'...

YES the extention lead may be able to handle it BUT there is a REASON why there was only a 10A GPO installed in your house. Because the cabling cannot support any bigger... What is worse is that your breaking current of a Fuse is about 1.7x its rating and a C/B is about 1.3X its rating, which could damage cabling.. C/B and fuses are not installed as a protection device in the main part of things, they are installed to protect the installation, ie, the cables... If you caravan was to try to draw 15A (WHICH IT COULD HENCE THE 15A GPI) it could be a hazard..

Justin

Load not withstanding, the lead is not the issue using a 15 amp lead in a 10 amp socket, max current from 10 amp socket WILL NOT effect the lead, if the van is running at full load then socket protection will protect the outlet and cable. Most van park sockets I have seen are only 10 amp, the adaptor leads mentioned would not be legal either but alot of people use them. The point I was making was that you can plug a 15 amp lead into a 10 amp socket (with 10 amp plug on it) and it will NOT be damaged by the current available from the socket. The original post/question related to using the van at home, one would think it would not be running at maximum load, thus people use a 10 amp socket.
Cipher: the same size cable is used for the 15 amp circuit as the 10 amp one, unless the 15 amp socket is a long run. In SA we use 2.5mm, I know some other states use only 1.5mm, The main difference is that the 10 amp circuit will generally have more sockets on it where the 15 amp will be on its own. Nowhere did I mention "fuses" I mentioned circuit breakers which are very accurate compared to fuses. I hope this clarifies it better for some of you.

I am with Slawsy65 except on filing earth pin. A 15 amp lead (note I do not say plug as 15 amp plug will not fit into 10 amp socket. A 10 amp plug will fit into a 15 amp socket) could be connected up to a 10 amp socket and should be safe as circuit breaker will protect from overloads. If you try to run to much current to the van the circuit breaker will activate. A 10 amp lead into a 15 amp circuit could be a problem for the lead if you try to draw too much current. To run the van at home just use a 150mm length of 15 amp lead with a 15amp socket on one end and a 10amp plug on the other and plug your 15 amp long lead from the van into the short lead. If your house is still running with the old style wire fuses get them changed to the modern trip (earth leakage?) ones. When you are at home no one is going to stop you doing this but in a caravan park they could stop you plugging a 10 amp lead into a 15 amp socket. A point of interest. Many years ago when they introduced self certification for electricians a guy did a survey in the Gosford area into electrical "incidents" (accidents) with electricians. In the first year of self certification accidents went up 80%!!

Hi Murray,
Would you believe I haven't fitted that Hyland yet, I have only found an enclosed off road trailer that needed some repairs at the right price that I am in the process of fixing up and modifying, that will include the Hyland when it's finished.
As I mentioned to Peter above, I was going to do the same thing as you but wasn't sure if I wasn't going to burn the house down when I turn on the micrwave whilst running the aircon in the van and drawing too much power throught the 10 amp plug and melting it, don't think the cook would have been real impressed !

Cheers
Pezza

I can understand a caravan with a big airconditioner and a couple of fridges needing a 15 amp plug/cord but my little Jayco outbach finch wouldn't get anywhere near it, yet I am still bound by the same rules.

Akray,
"caravan parts suppliers do not supply an adaptor or adaptor lead with 15 amp socket for the van & 10 amp for the plug"

Bought one for under $20 at a caravan parts supplier about 3-4 years ago... Is about 1.5m long with a 10A male and 15A female moulded plugs. Was packaged in a nice colourful plastic bag but can't remember the manufacturer. Can't remember the name of the parts supplier but I was looking for a new hitch pin (some bugger took mine) while in Queensland and saw these on the shelf so grabbed one.

Are the regs different from state to state...???

The lead now lives in my father in-laws van so he can run lights and the fridge before they head off on their annual hols...

Ianw,

You are correct in what you say except the the rating of the cable is only up to 10amps and not 15amps.

And that is what were talking about here. The ability of the cable to carry the current load without getting to hot and starting to melt.

So you may just start yourself a fire with some nice melted cable.

Regards
Garth

Hi Ian,
I actually did that years ago to a plug on an older welder I was using when I was renting a place, too young to give a stuff at the time, I kept feeling the plug to make sure it wasn't overheating on me whislt welding, worked fine :-)

Hi Garth,
Going by what you're saying it should be safe ( leaving out the 'legal' bit ) to fit a 10 amp male plug to a 15 amp lead and use that whilst at home ?

Cheers
Pezza

Garth,
A 15 amp caravan cable is not going to melt just because you file a bit of metal off of the plug earth lead so it fits in a 10 amp socket.
Ian

Ianw, true, but they 10amp socket will (if you draw 10amps +)

Hi Trev,
Figured you'd done something like that, lol, was gonna ask you what you had done but thought that mine would be in a different boat with that bludy great aircon sitting on the roof drawing more power etc.
As I wasn't sure of the exact difference between the 10 and 15 amp lead other than the obvious carrying capacity, I figured it safer to ask some of the more knowledgable ones on this site first, before I went ahead and 'modified' a 15 amp lead.
No-one seems to have blown their genny up or turned their house to ash so it looks like the way to do it.

Catch up soon,
Pezza

P.S. 33's ??? The salesman told me they were 29's but ocifer !!!

Hi Doug,
Yep, seems like the thing to do, but instead of doing it to my main 15 amp lead I think I'll make up a short extension using 15 amp lead with a 10 amp plug or just modifying the 15 amp plug on the extension.
Thanks for the advise.

Cheers
Pezza

So has mine --two 15amp earths that is.

I'm guessing that since the EU20i are rated at 1600W/6.6A (2000w max), which i suspect are similar units we are talking about, people may tend to overload them with 15A devices (even though they would have protection).

Even hooked up in parallel, they are struggling to supply a 15A load.....

Andrew

Andrew

Yes, but it makes a legal and easy connection to the van to run the fridge and even the microwave and I do believe that some even run the a/c off it. Mine/ours gets used for all sorts of appropriate(with amp limits) items--hedge clippers, vacuum cleaners, coffee machine, hair dryer, drills, saws, grinders, air compressors, but always one at a time and the security of the 15amp lead makes it feel a bit safer.

Dingbat

hi dingbat,

I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that, just that i believe either Honda or some Australian Standard may have had problems with doing this. I could see a situation where someone (no knowing much about electricity) plugs their welders or 15A loads into the genset and it keeps tripping off all the time. I take it Honda has high standards set for their equipment and may not like the return/complaint factor involved with this situation. Far better to bring them back to a "standard" plug size.

Though items like air compressors tend to work much better (or actually work in the first place) with a nice 15A lead connected to it. In my previous profession in the electricity industry, i would tend to see about 1 voltage complaint a week due rather to people using 10A and/or 30m leads with their large air compressors. Still see people trying to plug Urns/large kettles into 2kva or less (cheap 650w (?) GMC ones etc).......some have even said that it will work, albeit taking twice as long to boil!

I tend to use 15A leads more-so for their lower volt-drop characteristics than their current carrying capacity.

Andrew

Might be a little bit of misconception here, I don't think that Honda changed the outlets from 15 to 10 amps recently, I didn't mention that our genset is 3.5 years old, we purchased it in 2002, not long after they were released.
My guess is that they went the other way around, from 2 X 10 amp to 2 X 15 amp outlets, I'm assuming the caravan industry is one of their biggest buyers and they were losing too many sales because people couldn't plug their 15 amp lead into the honda to run their van without modification.

Avagoodn
Pezza

So there you go........From what i just read on another forum, your answer Pezza seems more closer to the mark ;-)

Thanks

Andrew

Hi Pezza,
Sorry if I was unclear at my first reply, my friends have the EU20i so when I updated my EU10i to the EU20i last year,I noticed it had 2x 15amp outlets as opposed to their older machines 2x 10amp outlets. Haven't seen anything on honda's web site about the change.
Wazza

Thanks for your reply anyway Andrew, I learned a few things from it, which I appreciate.

Wazza, I didn't even know they had upgraded the outlets untill you mentioned it, unfortunately, even if I fix my house hold problem with a 15 amp socket it doesn't solve my 2 X 10 amp outlets in the genny problem.
It really Pi$$es me off because when I bought the Honda I told the guy we were happy to buy the bigger EU2, even though we didn't need one that big at the time, we knew we were going to get a van with aircon at a later date and wanted it to run that, got the usual sales rant, and how it was a good choice for vanners, yadda yadda etc, with not one mention that the 15 amp van lead won't even plug into the outlets, mongrels like that really irritate me !
Anyways, will jump on the telling bone and find out if the internal wiring to the sockets is the same as the later model 15 amp ones to see if we can just replace the socket.

Cheers
Pezza

Pezza, better hope the same sales guy doesn't answer the phone otherwise he might have you buying a new gennie.
Wazza

One of the biggest problems with filing the pins would be the reduction of the earth pin current carrying capacity at the plug/socket. Remember also that Dodgy Bros Caravan Park may not have seen any preventative electrical maintanance for years and was probably wired up several minutes after Edison invented the light globe, so you may be seconds away from being the "Next Big Earth".

The earth cable (and earth pin) does not normally carry current in the general sense, only when an earth fault exists (A-E). Filing pins would not affect the earth fault capacity at all.

The true current carrying capacity of a 10A earth pin would be probably more like 100A (guess) for a short period of time based on conductor (pin) size.

Andrew

GaryInOz,

Dodgy brothers caravan park should be testing their RCD's (residual current devices or safety switches) every six months as required by regulation 3.60 of the OH&S act (in WA) and as stipulated in Table 4 of AS3760:In service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment. The standard is for all states but is only "best practice". Not sure of the regulations (legalities) in other states. Fine in WA is $25000 for first offence individual, $50000 for first offence body corporate.

Report your suspect Dodgy Brothers Caravan Park to your nearest Worksafe Inspector now!!!

Hey Andrew, if there is a link from the earth to nuetral bar then the earth does carry current - often about 40% of the load. The earth path is running in parralel to the nuetral.

Only a connection in a non-RCD situation if my poor memory serves me correctly......

Earths wouldn't carry 40% of the current, otherwise an earthed appliance would electrocute the user by some current going through the frame back the switchboard etc.

In a RCD protected circuit all current must be balanced on the A-N wires otherwise it would continuously be tripping the circuit.

Are you sure about your facts?

Andrew

I meant .....back to the switchboard via the operator touching it and earthing themselves......

Very well explained reply Ian, thank you.
At least those who still wish to 'modify' and 'shortcut' even in a level headed and sensible manner, now know the limitations and subsequent consequences of their actions if they exceed those limitations.
We are moving house soon, so in the meantime I will just charge the battery with my normal charger and run any lights etc. when needed in the van on battery only.
Pretty sure where we are going has a 15 amp socket in the power box.

Avagoodn
Pezza

I assisted with an investigation several years back of a guy with illegally wired extension leads......the bloke had an extension lead with 2 male plugs on it. When asked why he had this arrangement, his answer was that he needed it to join into another lead which had 2 female ends

Before we all go out and label some people here "handy idiots", i have seen the odd electrician wire an extension lead incorrectly. Whilst it would occur far less often by qualified individuals, it still happens :-)

Whether people are wiring leads illegally or not, they should be ideally tested and tagged after constructed to at least guarantee some protection.

Andrew

I'll add one more thing, then climb down off my soap box.

The girl in the story above would most likely be alive today (in spite of the missing MEN link) if that family had also spent a few hundred dollars having a safety switch (ELCB, RCD, GFCI whatever you choose to call it) installed at their house. Be aware all, a safety switch is probably the most important thing you can buy so if you are unsure if you have one, go to your switchboard and look for a device that appears to be a circuit breaker with a test button on it.

If you don't have one, call an electrician and get one. They are life savers.

Sermon over :-)

Ian

PS - If you do have a safety switch, remember to push the test button once a month to ensure it's working.

Ian,
Am I right in asuming the rcd on my house switch board will trigerif there is an earth leakage in my caravan while plugged in? I know I always earth my gennie and the van when we are camping so the rcd I plug into the gennie will work.
Wazza

G'Day Wazza,

Provided the 15A socket outlet you're plugged into is protected by the RCD, then yes. If you're unsure, plug in the van and check that power is on. Trip the RCD by pushing the test button and check that power goes off in the van. Generally, caravans will have their own RCD and having two RCDs in line will not adversely effect their correct functioning.

You have also brought up an excellent point with regards to your generator. Many generators do not have the MEN link (and is debated whether they should or not), and as such an RCD will not work. Simply earthing the case will not help this. My personal belief is that whenever a generator is used as a power supply for a caravan, camper, motorhome, house, boat etc (in fact anything with multiple socket outlets) the gen. should have an MEN. If the generator is primarily used as a stand alone, single outlet unit, then an isolated earth (floating neutral) is my preferred option.

Ian

Hi Swanning it, In some cases the men link should be removed. It depends on if the switch board is a sub board or the main board and also needs to be removed if rcd's are being used.

Hi Kiwi, You are right. A sub-board should never have the MEN link however bear in mind there may be more than 1 main board on a single site. In that case they will have the MEN. The main board should always have it. As we're speaking of caravans here it may be prudent to expand on Wazzas question. The reason an RCD will work on a caravan is because the caravan switchboard (if it has one) is really a sub-board, not a main board. It's classed as a sub-board because it is primarily (or at least capable - most times) of being plugged into a final sub-circuit at either a caravan park or house. This is part the reason I've raised the point about the MEN link on the gen. being absent in many cases (especially the smaller 2-stroke chinese ones). In actual fact, using them in conjunction with a caravan (ie: plugged into the shore power) would most likely breach the regulations (AS/NZS3000:2000) as all caravan installations I've seen are wired for MEN not direct earthing, which have additional requirements such as insulated neutral links and double pole circuit breakers - really depends on the van!

I guess the one thing this discussion has enforced is something common and supossedly simple has a few facets worth considering......not everything is as straight forward as first thought.

Ian

Hi Ian,
Well now you have me wondering if in fact I am doing the right thing using an RCD between my honda gennie (that I ground using the grounding point on the front) and my caravan (that I also ground). My caravan does not have a main board, sub board, or any board that I am aware of, just my kids body boards.
Am I wrong?
Wazza

Wazza,

I'd hazard a guess that your grounding is not doing anything at all. If your gen has an MEN fitted, then it will get a ground from the earth wire in your shore lead. If there is no MEN, then the earth is quite simply a bonded system which is also usually completed by the earth wire in the lead (I say usually because the gen should have the earth bonded to the case as they're not usually double insulated). I've never actually looked to see if Honda has an MEN link but I'd suggest for your usage that an MEN would be advisable. If you live anywhere around the Gold Coast, I'd be happy to check it for you. Your RCD would also probably be doing nothing unless the neutral and earth were bonded on the line side of the RCD.

Ian

Ian,
Looks like I will stick to my trade as you lost me a bit, when you say shore lead, is that electrical jargan or is it when you connect the lead to shore power as in a boat mooring (pardon my ignorance). Also why would they put an earthing point on the genny in the first place?
As we camp mainly at the beach I always earth it deep in wet sand.
Wazza ( from Brisbane)

Hi again Swanning It, You can only have one main board - all others are distribution boards. Also, on a totally different track, it is very debateable as to whether or not we should even use an earth (as a system), most countries do not. Have you ever thought that your earth can be to good? If a subscribers nuetral should fail down the street then your earth may be providing enough of a pathway to back feed to the main nuetral through your switchboard !

Wazza,
Sorry for the bad news. I don't think you are doing anything unsafe but you are in breach of AS/NZS3001/2001 (caravan electrical standard). Here's the excerpt from the standard that prohibits grounding the van (as well as prohibiting an MEN link):

(i) Isolation of protective earthing conductor
No direct connection shall be made at the relocatable premises between the protective earthing conductor of the relocatable premises electrical installation and the general mass of earth, e.g. by means of a driven electrode. No connection shall be made at the relocatable premises between any live (active or neutral) conductor and the protective earthing conductor of the relocatable premises electrical installation.

Portable generators can be used in many installations and the earth bonding point may be used in some cases (I can think of some, typically a two wire, earth return system). Your caravan does not use this system. The term "Shore Lead" is my terminology - sorry force of habit as I work mainly in the marine industry.

Kiwi,

There are many cases of multiple MSBs on a site. Typically not domestic but farms spring to mind where an outbuilding is fed directly from the supply authority rather than from the main residence. This is usually because of a large distance between house and outbuilding. I did also say earthing is still debated, however for many decades now, Australia has employed the MEN earthing system and so do most developed countries. The MEN system is not entirely infallible however, and the situation you describe is a genuine concern. In fact it is why electrical apprentices are taught to treat all wiring as live until tested (never assume) and if for any reason a main earth has to be cut or disconnected, a jumper earth must be used first. It is also why testing the continuity of the main neutral is one of our four most important tests a sparky must, by law, do!

Ian

In reality the level of risk generated by filing down the earth pin is small, the 10 amp socket is backed up by (no surprise here) a 10 amp fuse/breaker which will not allow you to draw 15A for long and even if you did pull 15A through it the wiring might warm up a bit but we’re not talking fire risk here. I suspect the risk of driving the van to your holiday destination is higher.

If an air conditioner is not used in the van all should be perfectly OK - I cannot imagine any van draws more than 2.4kW without an AC in use?

Having said that: it's the kind of thing I would do but I would recommend others to have the correct socket, wiring and ELCB installed as recommended by Ian and others above. _Every_ home should have an ELCB/RCD.

Mike Harding

G'day Mike,

I also agree with you. The risk is minimal. In fact filing an earth pin is probably a better outcome than someone putting a 10A plug top on themselves when not entirely sure they're confident. Be warned though, many earth pins are now just folded sheet metal (some cheap plated crap) and as you file you lose large chunks of the pin. The join is in the middle of the pin, not at an edge and as such by the time you file enough, you've just lost half the pin and the strength of the pin is in the folds........hence you weaken the pin and may find after a few connections and disconnections you end up with no earth pin. This would be an extremely dangerous outcome!

Also if there were fire, electrocution etc, your insurance would be straight out the window and apart from any criminal prosecutions you may face, you'd also be liable for civil actions against you and everything you used to own.

I feel like the grim reaper but that is not the intention. I'm only tring to impress on everyone that there is risk (regardless how small) and even a simple task like filing down an earth pin can easily have quite disasterous consequences.

Ian

You are quite correct Ian, certainly the mechanical implications should be looked at very carefully especially with cheap plugs.

In regard to the legal issue - well I wouldn't like to fight it :) but it would need to be shown that your action actually _caused_ the problem rather than that it was simply a breach of regulations - doing this would not _automatically_ make one libel, but your point is well made. And if your action had caused an issue you could even find a criminal charge heading your way!

It's one of those things: if you really know what you're doing as opposed to thinking you do the risk is small but I agree with you, the formal advice is "Do it the correct way" :)

Mike Harding

Thank you Mike, your input was as valuable as Ian's and what I was really after, not so much the 'legality' of it, a lot of us tend to bend the legal rules with mods to our 4by's on a regular basis, it's something some of us are prepared to take a chance on because we know a little more about what we're doing and where the 'safe' line ends and the 'dangerous' one starts. I suppose I was more after the level of risks involved in slight mods to the plugs and what the difference between the two is, which you answered well.

Cheers
Pezza

Turn the jug and toaster on in the morning for brekky straight away over 10 amps- Connect up the fry pan for the bacon eggs....etc Only for very short times (and unlikely to cause damage) and not what the thread started about exactly I know but still easy to get over 2.4kw
Ten amp sockets are usually backed by 16-20 amp breakers depending on the cable installation and type. What is being discussed here is really no worse than loading up a 4 way powerboard in your kitchen ( apart from filing the earth pin! )but most of the time people get away with it for a while before damage is done.

Jim

Sorry Mike but batboy is spot on correct. Most jugs will draw between 9 and 10 amps on there own and thats before you use the toaster so to suggest that a van will not draw more than 2,4kw is simply not true.

It should also be noted that a 10A outlet is not generally protected by a 10A fuse or C/B but a 16A.

Swanning is spot on with his discussion and the bottom line is.........get it done right and spend the few dollars on a 15A outlet.

There is a reason why things are done the way they are.

If the outlet is protected by a 16A breaker then the cable supplying the outlet will be able to carry 16A (plus) so plugging a 15A load into it will be OK. Now if you are concerned about the diversity factor in relation to other loads on the circuit then that would apply in the case of any installation which has multiple outlets on a single spur. This is exactly the situation the UK Ring Main system was developed to overcome and is one of the reasons, in my opinion, why it is the best and most safe domestic electrical system in the world. Note: we run light flex to many appliances in Oz (video players, TVs, table lamps, electric blankets etc) which is only rated for (say) 5A yet it's backed up by a 16A breaker or (even worse) a rewireable fuse! Is that crazy or what?

Certainly a kettle will draw 10A but only for a short time, a toaster is probably another 5A but again only for a short time. If you look at the tripping characteristics of an MCB (Miniature Circuit Breaker) you'll note that they will withstand a low level overload for a fairly long time - I can't recall offhand but probably long enough to make your coffee and do your toast. If it won't withstand it for that period then the breaker will trip and you'll learn to wait until the kettle is boiled before you do your toast. This is no different to the situation you would face in a van park if your wife used her 1800W hairdryer while you’re boiling the kettle (forget the toast!), it would be too much for the 15A supply and may trip the breaker – problem?

The point is that the _risk_ of this practice creating a fire or causing electrocution is miniscule, at worse it will trigger the protection devices into doing what they are designed for.

Nevertheless, you are correct to in highlighting these issues and I’ll repeat that my formal advice is for people to have the installation done correctly but it should be understood that basic electricity is not a Mystical Black Art which only “The Chosen Few” of the electricians union understand. In most countries it’s perfectly legal for people to do their own electrical work and the world is not full of burned houses filled with electrocuted bodies. Mind you I have seen some pretty bad work :) then again I’ve seen some electricians who didn’t know their SWA from their mineral insulated.

>There is a reason why things are done the way they are.

Emmmm… I know, I’ve been involved with the Standards bodies in this area on more than one occasion.

Mike Harding

PS. Interesting point Kiwi about whether we should have an earth system at all!? Certainly I consider earthing my generator in the bush would make things more dangerous.

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

The cable is not the problem. Even 1mm cable is rated to 16amp in the right conditions. The problem is in the connection points ie: The plug tops and the socket outlets. These WILL melt down if current is passed through them over there rated amperage for sustained periods. The connection point is the point of most resistance (therefore heat) and will fail before the cable in a overcurrent situation. Therefore the use of a ten amp male plug connected to a lead with a 15amp female socket will create a situation where a 15 amp appliance can easily be connected, exceeding the rating of the plug top =meltdown . Still no more dangerous than having the four way powerboard in the kitchen waiting for the four toasters to be plugged in but thats not illegal.

Another good issue Mike, to make people aware of. As there are many doubting Thomas' on this issue, I'll back you up.

When a lead is uncoiled on the ground, the only opposition to the current flow is the resistance of the wire (and perhaps a small amount of capacitive reactance). When the lead is left coiled on a drum, another impedance component (total opposition to current flow) is brought into play. This is inductive reactance. With the increase in impedance, comes a marked increase in temperature, coupled with the fact the increased temperature cannot escape from a coil of wire hence the lead can melt down into a heaped mess.

Ian

I didn't read all replies and I apologise if I repeat something here but there is also the option to fit a 10a power-inlet to the caravan . Meaning replacing the 15A with a 10A power inlet. No more lead dramas and plenty of power.

cheers
Reiner

Pezza, you will of course make up your own mind but note that there is a lot of old wives tales spread through the thread. The legal side has been pointed out by some and 'quick fix' solutions by dogy bros. inc. has also been sugested. I hope that some of the armchair 'experts' will digest some of the many well reasoned and technical replies above and rethink their ideas. Just because someone has been doing something dogy for years and not heard of a problem does not mean that it has not happened or can't happen. I hope you choose a legal solution to your problem.