Bullbars & the NRMA

Submitted: Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 18:20
ThreadID: 35908 Views:5252 Replies:11 FollowUps:14
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I just received this months open road from the NRMA now there at it as well about bull bars. Have you ever sat in traffic and had a large SUV pull up next to you, its bumper at the same height as you head? And did you idly wonder what might happen if that same bumper was heading straight towards your head in a T-Bone crash?
Jack Haley says there's plenty of evidence to suggest that it wouldn't be pretty, which is why curtain airbags are vital - they could he the only thing between you and a larger car. It's also why automotive design is like an arms race, with today's light cars, like the Yaris, having similar interior room and far superior crash management to the large cars of io and ao years ago.
That `arms race' is simply fuelled by vehicle incompatibility. Drivers of smaller cars need protection from larger cars.
But what if you drive an SUV? What can you do to minimise its impact on a smaller vehicle? Put simply, don't fit a bullhar. NRMA does not support the use of bullbars in urban areas.
Bullhars are unfriendly towards pedestrians and they defeat the smart strategies that car designers have come up with to help larger vehicles absorb more than their
share of the energy in a crash. A bullbar can act like a battering ram, intruding further into the cabin of a smaller car and posing a greater threat to its occupants. There's another good reason to avoid Uullbars, says Jack. "NRMA Insurance has found that vehicles with bullbars are more expensive to repair."
It sounds strange but makes sense when you think about how modern cars (and SUVs) are designed to absorb energy. "A bullbar transfers crash energy across the entire front of the vehicle and can damage parts of the vehicle that might not have [otherwise] been affected by the crash," says Jack.
Rural drivers like bullbars because they can prevent an animal impact from becoming a major event that might leave the driver stranded by the side of the road.
"There's some justification for this," says Jack. "But it's better if you can avoid driving at dusk and dawn, when animals aren't so common." Removable bullbars would be an even better idea, as they'd allow drivers to put one on for rural work and remove it for urban driving. But so far, that's all they are - a good idea that's not available.Have a close look at a modern car and you'll notice deep flanks (designed to help in a side impact) and taller bonnets flowing down into low fronts. You'll also notice that the pillars holding the roof up are thicker than they once were. There are good reasons for all these design features, but in some ways they're working against one another.
Open the bonnet on some recent model cars and you'll see lots of room between the engine's hard points and both the bonnet and the grille. This isn't just design whimsy. High bonnets are designed to stop pedestrians hitting the hard components that make up the engine and suspension. The bonnet is intended to crush and absorb a pedestrian impact, while the low snout is designed to sweep a pedestrian up, onto the bonnet and away from being run over by the wheels.
This is another area where bullbars can really confound car designers. Instead of sweeping a pedestrian up and out of harm's way (well, relatively speaking - no one wants to get hit by a car), they'll knock the pedestrian forward with lots of force and a high risk of head impact with the hard road surface. If the force doesn't do significant injury, then the wheels could, since the hapless pedestrian is usually knocked into the vehicle's path. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: disco driver - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 18:35

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 18:35
Hi Steve,
Interesting article???

Back in the days when I went to school and we were taught physics, I vaguely remember something about Forces and kinetic energy.

Basically if I remember right when a big thing collides with a small thing the laws say
"Big thing will do more damage to little thing rather than the other way round"

So if a L/cruiser hits a corolla, corolla will come off second best. Similarly if a Kenworth road train hits a L/cruiser, L/cruiser will come off second best

Simple, ain't it.

Disco
AnswerID: 183955

Reply By: Exploder - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 19:26

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 19:26
Hey! Why is it always the Drivers of small cars that are in the right, why is it that their car is acceptable but the big car isn’t.

I love these people. If anything hit’s you at 60Km/h you will be very unhappy or dead, bulbar or no bulbar.

You know what Jack Haley can kiss my arse, and he can take his thought’s and recommendations and shove em right up his arse, another one that hopefully natural selection will sort out.

I was talking to a chick I wile back who had written off 3 cars in 2 years, all her fault, but still maintained that she is a good driver!!!. Why I was gob smacked how that hell could she think that !!,and I had nothing no comeback or comment I drew a blank, Like how can you have 3 serious crashes in 2 years and still say you are a good driver.

These are the sorts of drives we should be targeting not large cars or 4WD's.

AnswerID: 183960

Follow Up By: Alan H - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:37

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:37
Hi Exploder. I can relate to that as I worked (went to?) at the Insurance Commission of WA for a short period and the record of some drivers was absolutely horrendous.
I read a couple of files on extremely serious accidents and I remember one where the same girl driver was involved but strangely according to her they were never her fault!
How she got away with her standard of driving I'll never fathom out, but there again knowing the local police attitude and their own lack of driving ability I shouldn't really wonder.
They may be trained to handle their vehicles at high speed but as ordinary drivers they are just that............. very ordinary.

Get hit by something much bigger than you whether it's in a bar fight or in a car smash, it hurts the smaller of the two generally.
A.
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Reply By: ev700 - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 20:00

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 20:00
A point that is often missed by the media and others is that drivers of small cars are more likely to be younger drivers who take advantage of the power to weight ratio and maneurerability of smaller cars thus regularly placing themselves in greater danger.

Another issue is that safety improvements such as airbags and crumple zones encourage a false sense of security and a feeling of invulnerability in drivers - which in turn leads to opposite effects than intended, namely the drivers take more, and higher, risks.

Now tell me who among us has not had 'right of way' taken (rather than yielded) by an over-confident, aggressive young driver? It is mainly drivers in smaller, nippy cars that weave in and out of traffic, tailgate and jump in front of heavy vehicles at traffic lights.

There needs to be a limitation on the power to weight ratio of all new vehicles. It is ridiculous that cars like a Subaru WRX (and most motorbikes) can accelerate faster than a highly modified GT eight cylinder race car of a decade or so ago.

As for pedestrains, there needs to be far more policing of careless behaviour by pedestrians. In cities jay walking has reached endemic proportions with pedestrians walking deliberately in front of cars and against "don't walk' lights.

One of the really positive design imperatives of bullbar makers has been to design bars that curve to mimic the bonnet of the vehicle.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 20:38

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 20:38
Sensible comments!!! Michael
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Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 21:11

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 21:11
I am going out right now to take my BB off.

Won't sleep otherwise
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Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:21

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:21
I'm welding barbed spikes on mine.;-)
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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:55

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 22:55
I like the way these articles seem to always be able to contradict themselves. I tend to think the bullbar spreading the impact across the entire front of the vehicle just may be a good thing. Oh, and the lowering of the front of the bonet is for stupid pedestrians benifit, Its good to see Formula 1 etc are so careing about the pedestrians on a racetrack, it has nothing to do with aerodynamics of course.

My tendancy towards 4wd has probably saved my, and other people near me's lives since i got one. It was hard to be a young hoon in a std 3.3 l diesel MQ.

Maybe we should put everyone on a motorbike for a year while they are on their P's. You soon learn to anticipate trafick, never trust and indicator (optional extra's on some cars!), and get very good road sense - your legs are the crumple zone.

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 184010

Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 23:28

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 23:28
Sorry Andrew, I still regard motorcyclists/bicyclists as temporary road users as much by their own dumb arse actions as those around them in larger, heavier conveyances. Just my opinion though :)))))))
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 23:45

Monday, Jul 17, 2006 at 23:45
The good thing about a motorcyclist is that their own dumb actions usually ony have a physical impact on themselves. I sold mine years ago to preserve my own life, it was plain scarey at times. I'd hate to start something and get into cyclists, but unfortunately they tend not to mix very well in many of our situations. They have their place, I just don.t know where that is yet. Its hard to share the road with someone going a quarer of the speed limit, dificult to see, and in many cases very inconsiderate. I ride occasionally myself - mainlyon bikepaths etc. I give cyclists plenty of room when overtaking, and slow down etc, but it gets on my nerve when you do this, then stop at an intersection, only to have the same bike slip past, go the red light, then you have to deal with them again. However, I'm all for lane splitting motorcyclists who do it properly and carefully. They get to the front of the line, and are gone in a flash when the lights change. They cause no trafic congestion. Some do it badly though.

Cheers Andrew
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 00:01

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 00:01
Hahaha It's the ones that do it badly, get caught between two vehicles and then complain and carry on when the vehicles take off that get up my nose. You pays your money, you takes your chances LOLOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 18:26

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 18:26
After watchin a semi Plogh into the side of a magna right where the driver was sitting at 70 kph I tend to agree with you. The spreading of force meant the magna was not greatly intruded upon and the driver lived. I had a taxi run into the side of my Camry and it untruded significantly almost killing my mate
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 07:30

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 07:30
Stephen,

Well I reckon the author of the article is wrong on two counts.

First of all, there are no SUV's in Australia. That is purely an American terminology totally foreign to us.

Secondly, the only "vehicle" that would have a bullbar at head height would be a Mack Truck and it wouldn't matter what sort of air bag, or water wings, or any other paraphernalia you may have if you and it are on opposing ends of a single path........&^%*$#&!
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 184025

Reply By: wheeler - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 07:49

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 07:49
I think the solution is that everyone should be forced to drive either a patrol or and landcruiser. That way we are all on equal footing. :-))))))))

Lets start a petition to ban Hyundai's and corrolla's
Who's with me??????
AnswerID: 184026

Reply By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 08:16

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 08:16
I'm not sure what difference being hit by my flat upright bull bar or the flat upright front of the Heritage Listed Paj would have on a pedestrian. I wouldn't like to be hit by my work crummydoor either.

Any mug can be uncomfortable out bush

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Follow Up By: oldmagpie2 - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 10:37

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 10:37
ok i'll bite what the hell is a work crummydoor? cheers
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Follow Up By: Penguin (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:31

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:31
I think he means "commode door" (Commodore).
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:37

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:37
Old Magpie,

It's relatively new terminology for what used to be called a dunnydoor which in turn is a euphamism for that thing built by GM and generally recognized as "Australia's Own Car".

Worked it out yet????

Cheers

Disco
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Follow Up By: oldmagpie2 - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:41

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:41
thanks everyone , i must be getting too many greys to miss that one.cheers
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Follow Up By: Muddy doe (SA) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:36

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 23:36
Also known as a "Conformadore"

The motoring press actually refer to the overall styling of large aussie sixes as "Falcadores".

Lol
Muddy
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Reply By: G.T. - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 14:21

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 14:21
Jack Haley`s idea of removing bull bars when in town must have come from the wild west days when cowboys had to surrender their guns when in town. I suppose that there would be a storage depot to house your bull bar, you pick it up when going out of town. What a sensible idea !!!!! I don`t think.What will these idiots think of next. The only trouble is that the pollys and scrubies will embrace the idea. Regards G.T.
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 17:09

Tuesday, Jul 18, 2006 at 17:09
I thought he meant we would take the bullbar off when we were going to the bigsmoke and put it back on when we got home to the bush.

So for my recent trip to Sydney I would take the bar off drive over 2000km and then put it back on.

On that recent trip I hit one 'roo and had at least one other near miss, glad I had left the bullbar on. Despite staying at Pyremont and attending events at Parramatta, Hurstville and Miranda I never even came close to hitting a pedestrian.

I'll try harder next time. (Joking ,,,,,joking really I am joking)

As for avoiding driving at dawn and dusk, I've got at least a 13 hour drive to Sydney dawn and dusk are going to fit into that somewhere along the way.

My car and all accessories including the bullbar comply with ADR's so the wingers can take a long walk on a short pier as far as I am concerned. The NRMA don't support the use of bullbars, I'll bet they would if every 'roo strike I have had in the last 4 years had resulted in a $2000 claim. They would have without the bar. Thanks ARB.

I try not to comment on these things but I read the article too and just could not believe how stupid it was.
Duncs

Duncs

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Reply By: tex1972 - Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:30

Thursday, Jul 20, 2006 at 20:30
just for arguments sake don't we all get insured with nmra take our bullbars off drive out west hit some vermin ,then hit them with a class insurance claim all at once, bet bullbars would be good things then.

Tex
AnswerID: 184551

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 22:50

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 22:50
Hi there Tex I reckon you'd be write with that one.Regards Steve m
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Reply By: robak (QLD) - Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:40

Friday, Jul 21, 2006 at 10:40
There is no doubt that a car or pedestrian will sustain more damage when hit by a bull bar rather then a plain vehicle. That's the reason why bullbars exist - to protect the vehicle and it's occupants from damage when they hit animals out in the middle of nowhere.

I think each of us has to weigh up the positives and the possible negatives that attaching a bullbar might have.

A few months ago there was a slow speed accident near my work. A car was turning right out of a side street and onto a one way (four lane, 50km/h) road. As the driver was looking to the left (the direction the traffic came from) a man carrying a child was crossing the road to the right of him. The car turned right onto the road and hit the crossing pedestrian. The man with his child rolled on the bonnet and walked away from the accident. In this instance the driver was at fault
(page 11
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/ReferenceLookup/Your_keys_driving_skills.pdf/$file/Your_keys_driving_skills.pdf )

He probably copped a $150 fine for failing to give way. If he had a bullbar fitted, he could've now been sitting in jail for manslaughter.

So, everybody has to decide - is their own life better protected with or without a bullbar.
There is no perfect solution.

R.
AnswerID: 184632

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