Uprating a Nissan weight
Submitted: Monday, Apr 24, 2006 at 21:38
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Bilbo
As some of you would know, I recently upgraded a 2.8 turbo diesel Nissan Patrol with a 6.5 litre V8 Chev and uprated springs, shockies, gearboxes and diffs and a heap of other stuff.
The vehicle is now, literally, the same spec as any other Nissan Patrol. I now want to increase the towing weight from the normal 2850 kgs for the 2.8 turbo Patrol to the weight applicable to a say a 4.2 Patrol, which is 3500 kg.
This would entail dealing with the vehicle Inspectors in the Dept of Planning and
Infrastructure at Welshpool here in W.A.
Thanks,
Bilbo
Has anyone had any experience of what's involved?
Reply By: Member - Bruce H (WA) - Monday, Apr 24, 2006 at 22:54
Monday, Apr 24, 2006 at 22:54
I new member and drive one of these 2.8 GU demons. The drawbar tongue from my beast says:-
NISSAN.
Max. Capacity (Braked) - 3500Kg.
Max. Capacity (Unbraked) - 750Kg.
Max. Static Ball Load - 200Kg.
Towbar Part No. G1962-VB010A
If the 2.8 does have a lesser capacity then who would be responsible if it was exceeded. Having only owned this horse for 2 years I can but assume that the bar was fitted by the agents from new.
Not sure how keen the pony would be with 3.5 tonnes up its blunt end but with a good downhill start I'm sure it could keep things moving.
Inerested to read any comments.
Thanks, Bruce H.
AnswerID:
168804
Follow Up By: Sparkiepete - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 05:56
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 05:56
Although the drawbar tongue reads what it says I think you need to
check the specs of the actual vehicle to find what it is rated at.
Regards
Sparkiepete
FollowupID:
424184
Follow Up By: Member - Bruce H (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 08:46
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 08:46
Thanks Sparky/Pete,
Nothing in handbook and only info ID plate is:
GVM 2960.
Don't know relationship between GVM and towing capacity, or if there is one.
Did find this info from Haymen Reese, but not clear guidelines.
http://www.haymanreese.com.au/consumer/advice/index.htm#2
And this but no 2.8 GU
Site Link
Interesting that GU Auto's are substantially less towing mass than manual trans.
Guess it's too late to be finding out when Mr Dibble is weighing things and says "Yer over-----". They don't often have a great sense of humour.
FollowupID:
424195
Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:19
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:19
Bruce,
GVM is the total permissible weight for that vehicle without a trailer attached. This is an "all up" figure and includes such thngs as fuel, oil in the sump, any load in the vehicle, cartons of beer, etc
It's the maximum that you can go to WITHOUT a trailer.
GCM is Gross Chassis Mass - which should be somewhere around 5 tonnes for a Patrol. This figure is again an "all up" figure, including a trailer and whatever the trailer has in it or on it.
It is generally regarded that auto gearboxes are not as strong as manual boxes. (Although there are some auto boxes that are real beauties). Hence, a vehicle with an auto box is generally downrated when compared to a manual gearbox. If they are overloaded they slip and eventually "burst".
Bilbo
FollowupID:
424199
Reply By: Bilbo - Monday, Apr 24, 2006 at 23:21
Monday, Apr 24, 2006 at 23:21
Answers for all,
A 2.8 Patrol may
well have a 3500kg towbar fitted, but the vehicle as a whole is not rated for 3500 kgs. All it means is that it has a 3500 kg rated towbar.
Check the books or the compliance plate. The gearbox is the weak point along with the 2.8 engine. Everything else is the same as the bigger engined Nissans. That's the problem here. My truck is now identical to a 4.2 or a 3 litre - except for the 6.5 litre engine, but my plate says "2850 kgs only".
I've asked Greg Jones at Brunswicks if he coulkd get the certifying engineer that plated the engine to also re-plate the towing capacity at the same time. He told me that he's been asked for this before but neither he nor the engineer is allowed to rerate the towing capacity. That job has to be done by DPI inspectors and them only.
Hence my question.
Bilbo
AnswerID:
168809
Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 00:44
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 00:44
Bilbo
I think it may have something to do with the size of the brakes, axles, etc.
and as you say gearbox and diff. Power only has to do with the time it takes to tow not the strength of the components
Phone DPI inspectors and ask them they should be able to tell you
Richard
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:30
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:30
Richard,
I've done SOME checking with Nissan and I've had experience with Nissan Patrols in years gone by. It seems that the brakes, axles, bearings, chassis members, brake boosters, steering components etc on a 2.8 are exactly the same as any other Patrol, 4.2 or 3 .0. The limiting factor appears to be the strength of the gearbox and the size of the engine.
I'm merely asking "Has anyone been down this road before with the people at DPI in W.A.?
Another way of putting it would be "Do I have get every part number and part description from Nissan to prove my case or can I get an engineer to just certify it and then present that to the DPI?"
My motto is "To be forewarned is to be forearmed"
Bilbo
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:51
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:51
Call an engineer and ask them what you need to do, or go back to your ngine mob and get them to do the runningaround
FollowupID:
424210
Reply By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:38
Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:38
Sold my 21 year old 75 series with a Brunswick 6.5 last week. Already back to thinking about putting one in my 105 Landcruiser.
Now that you've had a few weeks to settle in to your new rig, what's your opinion on the current 6.5 V8 conversions? My one was done 8 years ago and I from what I've seen, they have changed dramatically since then. Anything you'd do differently second time around? Your opinion on anything whatsoever to do with the conversion?
I'm still undecided as to which way to go. A simple, 'true' non-electronic diesel appeals to me greatly and I would end up with pretty much my ultimate 4x4 vehicle, but the cost is hard to justify and in all honesty, my petrol motor is a gem with oddles of torque from idle (and below). I do love a thumping big V8 though and the range of a diesel with LR tanks is a bonus for those very remote areas.
Thanks
AnswerID:
169030
Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:48
Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:48
Forgot to add, my 6.5 took a lot of km's to 'free up'. I think they'll be a long lasting donk.
Here's something to
test. Try driving it around
the block a few times without any air filter or piping on. Unrestricted just straight into the inlet manifold. I found my 6.5 was being strangled by the standard filter and
snorkel setup, and I instantly gained about 25% more 'driveability'. Obviously this is not a premanent option so I bought a quality K&N pod filter for around town / bitumen use and the improvement was spectacular. I think they may use a Donaldson now but it's worth the 2 mins to
check it out.
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:16
Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:16
V8,
There's not a lot I would do differently. MAYBE I would go for a higher 3.7 diff ratio as I reckon this would pull that no probs, even towing a 2 tonne van. I'd also recommend that anyone that has it done gives it a good load in REVERSE test to check that the drivers side exhaust isn't hitting the bell housing or body work on reverse torque. Mine is and it's a shocking noise. They're fixing that tomorrow. It seems to be a common complaint. Also give 3rd gear a good workout for jumping out of gear on the overrun. This one does it and again it is a common fault as the body "pushes" against the gear lever if they haven't cut enough out of the surrounding bodywork and rubber seal. They're fixng that as well - otherwise I'l be having a new gearbox! The electric fuel pump that they fit is very noisy and I'd be asking questions about that - "can it be toned down a bit please?" I'll be fxing that myself.
I'd also think about some serious noise supression matting - the proper stuff. It's not ear bending noisy but I've been spoiled by my former TD Landcruiser and, by comparison, that was quiet. But this Chev/Trol is still quieter than my old Ford Maverick ute. The exhaust is the bulk of it, followed by the diesel rattle.
Nothing else really.
Bilbo
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bilbo - Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:20
Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 at 23:20
PS - Thanks for the air filter tip. Not sure how a K&N would go in the dust in the Goldfields though. Should be OK around town.
Bilbo
FollowupID:
424567
Follow Up By: V8Diesel - Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 07:57
Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 at 07:57
Thanks for that Bilbo, much appreciated.
Re: the K&N, I only used mine when driving on the bitumen and then would swap it back over to the snorkle for the serious stuff. Just loosen the hose clamp and slide the rubber pipe off that ali right angle dooickie that sits on top of the inlet manifold and swing it out of the way. K&N filter out of its dust proof bag and clamp onto the 3" pipe along with an old pillow case to stuff up the pipe so dust can't get into the 'clean' side of the pipe. A one minute operation.
Was definately worth the effort on mine, but chances are they've come up with a less restrictive system since 1998.
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