<span class="highlight">solar</span> <span class="highlight">vs</span> <span class="highlight">generator</span>

I travelled around for some years and always relied on a trusty generator. But one has to carry extra fuel in jerries and then there is the noise from the genset, however quiet it may be. I would like to think that if you were sitting still for a while then solar technology should be the answer, trickle charging your batteries. Not sure of the technical aspects however. Have gone down that path many times costing it out but never got so far as to embrace it as the cost was always out of my reach.

I have some solar panels, i had a honda EU10i but sold it to purchase - a christie machine. If no-one is around to p#ss off with the noise then a christie generator/alternator at less than an hour a day will fully do my batteries. I use the solar panels when i can which just reduces time on the christie generator each day. One Q u should ask yourself is how much room do u have ? - then measure how much space 8amps/hr worth of solar panels would take - a friggin lot. The EU whacks out 8 amps and it is up to you to guess when the battery is full, though you can wire in your own regulator. In retrospect I think 2 x 40W panels hinged together (fold up) with an EU10i with a 20amp solsum regulator wired in would be an excellent choice. Luckily most of my camping is beach camping and putting the christie engine/alternator close the beach don't p#ss off anyone cause u can barely make it out from the noise of the breakers, and its not on for long.

i think some solar panels with some sun each day would replace the day's worth so after overnight the very very quiet eu would bang in the required current within an hour or two (depends boiling night up north or freezing night down south etc).

But i'm keen to hear the other responses and whether some sparky would say it is like wrong to wire in a regulator but its worked fine for me.

So should i have sold the eu, probably not. But on overcast days and the christie charge brings in the batteries to about 4amps in about an hour and i think how long it would have taken the EU to bring the batteries back up to full charge, well then in an ideal world i'd have all three.

so as usual, its about space (how much room in your 4wD) and money (station in life).

to be scientific i spose you need to work out how much your light and engel 39L use each day and then ... back to the beginning.

good luck

I guess the game here is to calculate the daily consumption of your fridge and the light and shop for a solar panel which will reliably supply the power to keep the battery charged. I priced one for a garden pump (12V) recently and the price of a unit to supply enough power was pretty high,
But as Willem says you have to carry fuel and there is the noise and environmental damage as well.
Why will you not be able to run your motor?

Exide extremes will supply a fair bit of power. I wonder if you could get away with using solar to trickle charge knowing that your aggrogate position will be one of loss until you can start the engine after 10 days using the other battery?
Jaycar has a fair range of solar gear as I remember.
Camper

You would need a minimum of two 60-80w panels to keep up supply for frig.
Small to medium well insulated frig would need min of 24amp hours depending on
climate & siting.
The panels mounted on your vehicle I presume would require leaving it(them) in full sun for them to be effective & some are badly affected by dappled shade & overcast days.
Other options: Cheap $200 (or less) chinese generator puts out 650w continous
or 8amps @12v
Frig: Go for 3 way type so you can run it off gas on site. These consume more amps than the motorised type. Repco have a 35l Aust made 3way on special atm
for $399_. Looks quite good.One panel would then run your lights if not too big.

I'm about to get into the same issue - need to make the same choice - seems that:
1. If you have a compressor fridge you WILL at times be running either a gennie or your car motor (and who's to say that the car's donk is not a gennie ? - I think that is a big point - why buy a gennie if there's one under the bonnet). ...this gennie point rears up on overcast days of course.2. If you have a gas fridge you MIGHT get away with panels only but that is not a certainty.I'll probably go solar, because I have a gas fridge - the panels can top up for the various items I have running on the aux....by the way, the folding S panels are great but at a huge cost IMO - a single pane 80W is about $700 with reg. - the 2x40W as a folder are about $1100.

( just posted this on another site as well )

Hi mr Z, there’s a few things you need to consider before you set up shop at a camp site with a self contained power supply.
These calculations are very rough but will give you some idea of what you will need know.
How much power does the fridge use, Engel fridge’s are pretty economic as far as power goes.
How much power do your lights use and how long are you going to use them each night.
Are you going to use an inverter to power a computer or what ever, inverters can use a lot of power.
Most Gens have a 12 volt out put and you can simply hook it up to the battery with everything still running off the battery.
For operating off batteries for 10 days a gen is the only real way to go.
I would rather go with Solar panels but at a very rough guess I would say you would need close to $2,000 worth of solar panels to get enough charge to cover you usage and a little to spare for those rain days.
weather you want to use a gen or solar panels, you should take into account how often you are going to need self contained power for 10 day periods.
If it is only going to be once every blue moon then a much cheaper way to go, if you don’t mind driving you vehicle for a few hours every 3 or 4 days, would be to fit a third ( deep cycle ) battery.
No matter how big ( or small ) you alternator is, you will be able to charge 3 or even 4 batteries off it. Main reason for this is that lead/acid batteries at there highest charging rate will only pull about 15 amps max and that by the way is not when they are flat. The flatter they are the lower the charge rate.
You will need to drive and not just let the vehicle idle as the alternator will not be turning fast enough to be producing any substantial current.
We make a smart charger that, among other things, allows you to use the surplus from the cranking battery while still leaving enough power in it to start the vehicle.
Again, a generator would be the best way to go if you are going to do your 10 day stints often.
Hope this is of some help.
Regards

We have 2 x 60 watt panels connected to regulator then 80AH deep cycle battery.
The panels are on a 15 m lead that plugs into car.

This runs 32 l engel and 1 or 2 fulro lights hf radio .

I it works well for us and have never been at a loss for power even in cloudy whether.

I would advise using a regulator as when out in the centre of aust the battery reached charge by 11.00 am so if no regulator the battery would have cooked if not watched closley.


Just as a by and by the system works best after having stoped and plugged in for a day. This is becaues the car alt will only get about 80% charge on battery. With the solar we get 100% charge for battery.

Also check if Generator output is 12v or 13.2v. Batteries wont charge well if using 12v

I used to have a generator and now have 2 solar panels
was going to buy 2 80w panels but decided to go for 2 100w panels at $650 each
charging 200 amp deep cycle battery
powered is the Waeco fridge 50 litre
couple fluoro lights at night often only 1 going
car radio fitted in camper and satellite TV and laptop
have not run out of battery power
I bought my panels from Landline best price I could find
I have price list here
80w panel $550 incl GST
100 panel $650 incl GST
80w fold up panel with reg and bag $800 incl GST
they guys email landline_equipment@hotmail.com

Solar Solar Solar Solar

But purely for selfish reasons.
Now that generators are appearing on the market cheaply more and more people are buying them.

Unfortunalety not everyone is considerate when it comes to using them. I get to the bush to escape the noise this seems to be getting harder to do.

But thats just me having a whinge

Hi, I sold my generator about 15 years ago & have been using solar power ever since. As I have mentioned in this forum many times previously I run a 160 watt solar panel setup connected to a 190 amp deep cycle battery & have been camped up to 3 weeks at a time & never run out of battery power. This runs a 60ltr Trailblaizer fridge, a couple of lights, comms gear & my laptop without any problems. You can see my setup on my web site at: www.havewheelswilltravel.iinet.net.au Cheers.

Generator: cheap ($98 at Bunnings), noisy, needs two stroke fuel, have to run it at specific times, heavy.
Solar: expensive, clean, silent, no attention needed once set up, no extra fuel needed, less likely to fail.
If you can afford it go solar.

does anyone know how the honda eu's perform in the hot summer days?

would engine life be reduced?

Hi Mr Z, if your long term plan is to eventually buy a caravan then solar panels would be the way to go and I saw in Disco_inferno’s posting, 100w panels for $650. Does not say what brand, but I pay more than that for BP Solarx panels trade.
One of the biggest advantages of solar panels besides the lack of noise is that you can simply add more if you need more power and while the caravan is not in use, the batteries would be kept charged up at all times, whereas if the gen proves to be to small, you have to replace it or add a solar panel to boost your power.
Another way to go is what they do with large motor homes and thats to get a large gen in the first place and get a large 240 volt battery charger.
Solves all your problems at once but it will cost you.
There’s lots of options but you will have to work out you needs first and thats one thing you never know until you get there!
Regards and have fun.

Mr Z,
The answer is Solar......

I camp for months, not weeks at a time on beach's in the North West with a 80 wt Solar pannel and two 80a/h Deep Cycle Calcium batteries, because calcium can handle the power put out by the Solar panel.

You are not permitted to use Generators in Nation Parks.

Solar panels work for minium 6 hours per day, they work in rain and cloudy conditions if you don't buy elcrappo panels.

You don't have to look after Solar Panels like you do a genni, or remember to turn them on, or monitor the battery system, or having other campers turn the Genni off (for you) and telling you to bugger off because it make some noise, or carrying foreign fuel as well as Diesel, and the space a Genni takes up and the added weight. You are going for a holiday not a second job.

If your Engel uses ~24 Amp/DAY and a light uses ~6 amp/NITE= 30 Amp per DAY total, then the Solar panel has to replace only 30 Amp per DAY.
(30 amp/DAY divided by 6 hours = 5 amp/hour)
1 x 80 wt Solar panel will do this for you, then you have the extra few hours of 1 or 2 A/h each side of the 5 a/h as a bonus.

Therefore you don't have to start your 4by at all, and you can stay camped for months also.
The secret is the ability of your battery system to accept the charge direct from the Solar panel without a regulator and the Quality of the panel.

People, youll find that a danfloss compressor from engels, waeco's trailblazers etc. will drag approximately 40 amps in a 24 hour period, when camped in tropical regions with a higher ambient temperature, and a thirsty family will not make it any better.
Youll need at least 160watts of panels to keep up, and then youll need an EU10i generator, or better a Christie Outback battery charger to keep up in cloudy weather.

I have 2 x 100 watt Suntech solar panels mounted on top of my vehicle in a way I can tilt them towards the sun in winter. Even in average cloud conditions I have had sufficient power in winter. I used to have a Honda generator and when it needed $500 worth of repairs I decided it was time to look at solar

I do not miss having to cart the petrol put the generator out in the morning take it back in at night so it does not get flogged wind up the lead buy petrol fill generator change oil set service generator clean air filter check valve clearance decarb generator buy new head gasket buy new spark plug always something to buy or needed to be done on the generator. Only thing with solar is to wash the panels at the same time as washing the car. Been retired and not flash with cash I do not miss having to buy petrol and other stuff for the generator

I also made myself a solar hot water system with a small electric circulating pump and get 8 gallons of 80 degree hot water every day
I also have a solar cooker we use in summer
If you see my van with a painted smiling sun on the back give me a honk and a wave

Solar Power, I don't deny your obvious intelligence, however I only use one 80 watt panel and two DC batteries without a regulator, I can go for a week without starting the vehicle, maybe I am just lucky to be in the sunny North West.

One thing I will say is all solar panels are definately not the same.

We used to travel with a generator, but last year "went solar" with just one panel mounted it on a stand so it be set to face the sun, or put on top of the (stationery) van, depending on time of day, to get optimum sun. We had a deep cycle battery in the van which also charged from the car - but the solar panel did it much quicker than going for a drive. We had 12v lights (more than adequate for reading with) and built in an engel caravan fridge. We didn't meet bad weather though. Often we'd set up the panel facing the sun, go for a walk, and get back late in the day to find it well and truly in the shade, but the battery was fully charged. We'll proabably still take the generator if the trip is going to be away from the sunny climates. The Nissan also has two batteries, and the second one doesn't get drained, so it can be used the jump start the car if the main one goes flat.

R.E.P.C.O.
This web site PROVES you are wrong.

http://www.batteryworld.com.au/v1/ProductEnquiry/Product%20Information/Simple%20Solar%20Maths.htm

"Simple Solar Mathematics

Typical camping needs

Waeco "CF50" 50 litre fridge (runs at 45 Watts per hour 32% running at 30„aC ambient)
45 Watts x 8hrs divide by voltage 12v = 30 Amps per day

Lights: 2x 13 Watt fluorescent about 3 hrs a day
26 W x 3 divided x 12 = 6.5 Amps per day

Total ... 36.5 Amps used per day.

What more can I say, yes you are wrong as simple as that.

I have only one panel and it works for me, it works for other posters to this thread also, so maybe you don't know what you are talking about!
(OziEx reincarnated)
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On a lighter note.......

The best way to avoid the panel(s) growing legs and wondering off, is to attach a chain to them and lock them onto something that will not move...

Mr Solar Panel
remember this post?

Reply 16 of 17 posted 25 Aug 2004 at 23:17 - (AnswerID: 73992)
ADI Test results

I take it that no one including;
Nudenut, Mad Dog (Victoria), Scott_G, Wommy and also you Mr Solar Panel

can explain WHY the ADI test report, in the Mad Dog (Victoria) posted link - (FollowupID: 333048) on FRIDGE power consumption,
are almost HALF the Fridge manufactures own quoted power figures?

How can these test results be taken seriously, when there is such a huge difference in the published results compared to manufactures numbers?

Everkool ......claim: 3.80 amp ....not... 1.90 amp as in ADI test
Waeco ........claim: 3.75 amp ....not... 2.00 amp as in ADI test
Engel ..........claim: 2.70 amp ....not... 1.60 amp as in ADI test
ARB ............claim: 2.70 amp ....not... 1.60 amp as in ADI test
Explorer ......claim: 3.00 amp ....not... 2.40 amp as in ADI test
AutoFRIDGE claim: 24.00 amp ...not.. 16.25 amp as in ADI test

I again restate the question:

Is the quoted ADI test report .... WRONG?
or
are ALL the FRIDGE Manufacturers .... wrong?

Mr Solar Panel... you still have not answered this question.....-> why not?

Hi Mr Z,
An old post of mine (archive post number 7531) gives the stats on my solar setup and performance while at Fraser Is. for 7 days last year.

I'm there again in a weeks time for 10 days, so would happily post up the performance stats again.

Just one note when doing your sums.
My KC 120 watt panel produces approx. 17 volts. 120 watts/17 volts (approx) gives just over 7 amps. This is all stated on the specifications sticker, but just make sure that you dont fall into the trap of watts/12 volts = amps or you will always come up short in the real world.

Enjoy
Craig

Mr Z
This may be a bit late, I have just got back from the bush and looking at back
issues on the forum THIS IS WHAT I USE. I have 2 Engels 1 on fridge the other
as a freezer. I use 2x75 panels through a regulator to adeep cycle batt
+ 2 lights at night. Solor will still get some power on cloudy days,not much but some.Its the sun rays. Just monitor your freezer at night turn it down to a lower setting. (on this trip the freezer monitor read -18 i turned the freezer OFF at
5pm in the morning the monitor still read -1.5) Sun up turn the freezer back up.
One other thing I just have my panels lying flat on the car roof.
I am no expert on tech details. This just my expericences?
Can e-mail photos to show
Brian

hi brian,
thanks for your reply,
are your panels mounted on your canopy?
do you leave them lying flat or adjust them?
what size battery were you charging?
i'm still trying to decide between panels and generator of similar cost
thanks again mr z.