PPD remapper unit /Transmission cooler

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 31, 2024 at 20:48
ThreadID: 148094 Views:1396 Replies:3 FollowUps:18
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Want advice regarding installing a PPD Remapper unit into my 2016 Prado for towing, is it worth it etc... Also, what's a good Transmission cooler unit for the Prado? and advice would be great. Thanks
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Reply By: RMD - Thursday, Aug 01, 2024 at 09:30

Thursday, Aug 01, 2024 at 09:30
Uppy
Perhaps explain what a PPD remapper unit is, and what it is supposed to do. I can imagine it is to modify change and ratio hold patterns.
Is it PRESET or do you REMAP it as you go? according to your requirements, which most people won't know.
Re trans coolers. There are a variety of them available and it should be selected so as not to inhibit flow rate, is, decent/correct internal size of tube and or fittings. The shape of them varies a lot. Long and thinner and shorter and wider. A decent appraisal of the position available for it's fitment would largely decide on what you can fit. You can add a switched fan to it, Either manual switch or automated via a temp sensor.
Do you have some way of knowing auto trans fluid temp? It is the coolness of the fluid returning to the auto which keeps it ALIVE.
My idea is to fit it into the HOTTEST line, ie, the one leaving the torque converter so the MAXIMUM heat value/amount of dissipated by the cooler and therefore that heat isn't added to the engine radiator water to expect it to cool/dissipate additional large amounts of heat, Protects the engine.
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Reply By: Member - Happy Explorer - Thursday, Aug 01, 2024 at 20:43

Thursday, Aug 01, 2024 at 20:43
Hi Uppy
I have a 2013 Prado 3l diesel 5 speed auto. While a different model to yours, I am hoping you might find something useful in my experience.
I have no idea what a PPD remapper is, however I am playing with the idea of getting a dyno tune and ECU remap. About $1600. For me it is that or nothing. The reason I am considering this is because I just spent $20k on a new motor after popping a piston while towing. I am doing what ever I can now to avoid a repeat.
The above is just my thoughts and intention with no hard facts to support it.
The following though, is my experience which is sort of indisputable.
I have a transmission cooler from Wholesale Automatic Transmissions. It appears well made and came with vehicle specific mounting brackets etc. Been there for several years now with no cracks or leaks.
Having said that I have found it does not cure any problems. It probably reduces the temperature a few deg. which may well equate to a corresponding rise in engine temp.
After doing a fair few things and not necessarily in the right order, I would approach it all differently next time and do it in the following order.
1. I would fit a OBD scanner first. I have an Ultra Scan which now monitors the engine temp, transmission pan temp as well as the torque converter temp with warning alarms set for all. This reveals interesting and vital data. While the T/C is locked there is no over heating problems at all in the transmission. While towing up hills with the T/C slipping the T/C temp will increase rapidly and can easily hit 150c. Now for me that is scary stuff and rightly so as you end up with very dark burnt smelling trans fluid. Not good I say. That heat is then transferred to the fluid and the pan temp will rise accordingly if not corrected with an adjustment to driving technique.
2. I now have a MM4x4 lockup-mate T/C lockup kit. This works extremely well and I never turn it off towing or not. I have been using it for a few years now. While the T/C is locked there is no over heating problems at all. However this has on a couple occasions remained locked with the transmission holding too high a gear resulting in motor overload and rising engine temp. Just something else to monitor and be aware of.
3. I am currently fitting an EGT gauge. I will then have early warning of any overload situation on the motor which I can correct long before engine temperature rises and pistons start popping. This last point is as yet untested but makes sense to me. As I said I am probably a bit over cautious now having just cracked two pistons and blown a decent hole in one of them. Believe me when I say this experience can really wreck an otherwise perfectly good day.
The bottom line is that these four cylinder common rail diesels while working extremely well while not towing, they are pushing their limits when loaded up and towing. One may or mayn't experience what I did, however starting with an OBD gauge and monitoring some vitals will tell you quickly if you have problems that need addressing. If you can do what you require without any over heating then consider yourself very fortunate and happy motoring to you. No further action needed, however, if not then do whatever is required to address your problem from there.
Hope that helps somewhat.
Roy G.
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Follow Up By: Uppy - Member - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 12:33

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 12:33
thanks Roy , for taking the time to reply, the information you have given me is food for thought . I have a scan3 which gives me all that information you covered in your post, I well check out the tune up you mentioned. Regards Uppy
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 13:27

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 13:27
Uppy.
I hope the rebuild replaced the injectors with NEW ones, because the injector which blew a hole in a piston will do the same in the NEW PISTON if not replaced. They do crack pistons and when they do the blow by gasses are enormous. Detected by taking of cam cover hose and observe.

If a TC is working as it should, it will develop higher temps in the fluid. This is normal. but in order NOT TO ADD that temp and volume to the engine water, the cooler should be immediately after the trans in the exit line so maximum differential of heat transfer can occur via the cooler. Then the engine water isn't being raised in temp above what the radiator can dissipate. Saves engine!
If your cooler is in the return line then the massive heat IS being delivered to the engine water, raising it's temp and causing the engine to run hotter, Pistons then running HOTTER TOO. they melt or deform with heat.

If high TC fluid temp is happening, then lower gear ratio is required to lessen Slip Rate in TC.
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Follow Up By: mike w - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 16:36

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 16:36


The Prado pistons cracking is a piston design issue. It’s too weak and cracks through the top.

If you have no mods and a good service history file a case with Toyota to get them to replace with a new long or short motor. Many have been successful and had Toyota pay full parts and labour or in some cases just parts.

There is a f/b page containing lots of info and different outcomes. It has many members especially in the 2009 onwards 150 series when the pistons were redesigned and Toyota removed the ceramic coating to save a dollar or two.
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Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 04:25

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 04:25
Personally I would never chip a motor. Both of my cars have an ECU Remap and am very happy with resulting power/torque and fuel savings. One is only 2 years old and one has been remapped for 5 years. The Prado 1KD motor had a bad name for destroying motors. (google it , if in doubt). A good ecu remap will help with engine running with more power and torque. It can also improve fuel economy depending on driving style and tune. Definitely go with the transmission lock up kit from MM 4X4 AS THEY ARE BRILLIANT, ESPECIALLY FOR TOWING. I run Ultragauges and these are great for keeping an eye on engine and transmission temps. Easy to set up and customize to suit your needs.
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Follow Up By: Member - Happy Explorer - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 08:04

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 08:04
Hi Bigfish
Thankyou for your comments.
The guy that I would get to do my remap also suggests improvements in transmission performance as a result of improved engine performance. I personally do not know as I have not done the remap and it might be hard to prove anyway. Just his opinion when I asked him. I am aware that with the old vacuum transmissions, one had to start with a well tuned motor to get good auto performance. He said the same applied to the modern electronic autos.
Roy G.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 09:44

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 09:44
"Personally I would never chip a motor."

What is the difference between modifying the ECU by reprogramming it internally or modifying externally with a chip?
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Follow Up By: Uppy - Member - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 12:40

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 12:40
Thanks Pete , Will check out the remapping idea, I've got a scan3 to monitor the engine. Cheers Uppy
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 17:01

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 17:01
As long as you don't ask too much of the engine it will be ok. WEAK pistons aside. If REMAPPED, to get the ability to develop more HP and torque. How does the engine do that without an increase in fuel injected, higher developed fuel/air charge creating more heat as it burns and greater cylinder pressures than OE, therefore, more stress on the piston crown? Some changes to timing might be the success here.

Manufacturers could, and do sometimes, increase the fuel/aircharge with turbo pressure/injection pressure and some other changes at the expense of a long lasting engine. They know most will sell, before it is to the worn out /tired stage of life.

This might explain why VW now use a V6 instead of a caned 2 litre 4 cylinder.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 17:09

Friday, Aug 02, 2024 at 17:09
nomadic navara. Here is a quick google answer to your question. I researched for many months and spoke to lots of people both with chip and with remap...Remap offered best result and infinitely more programmable to the vehicle being tuned..i.e....not just a generic tune that a chip does. Mechanics I have spoken too all say remap is the better way of guaranteeing performance for your vehicle as it is tuned to your vehicle (not every Prado, Kia, Mitsy, Honda etc.etc motor is the same.

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Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 11:38

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 11:38
Roy G,
I've had the MM4x4 Lock-up Mate fitted to my NS Pajero for several years and totally agree with Bigfish. Having the ability to lock-up the transmission when towing results in big fuel savings, increased torque, much cooler transmission oil temperatures and better engine braking when descending hills. It's paid for itself many times over. In my opinion, it's a much better solution than add-on or bigger transmission oil coolers as it addresses the cause of the problem. My son is considering one for his Prado now that he's towing an off-road camper.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 16:19

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 16:19
Another way of reducing gearbox oil temperature is to keep your engine revs up when climbing hills. Mooching along with your auto box in drive will produce a lot of converter slip if the engine revs are around 2,000 RPM or less. Converter slip produces a lot of heat, which can lead to the oil overheating. If you use the gear selector to use a lower gear than the one the box runs in when the selector is in the auto position, this considerable reduces the temperature.

I found this out, back in the days when I drove a Disco TD5. A couple of times when ascending a hill like Gibraltar Range and my engine revs were running at 1800 to 2100 RPM, the gearbox warning light came on. Each time, pulling the selector back to select a lower gear extinguished the light within 500 metres or so. (The sensor for the warning light is a temperature sensing switch in the oil cooler under the radiator.) From then on, I would always use the gear selector to keep the engine revs over 2500 RPM when climbing a long gradient. That way I had no further problems.

My next vehicle was a Navara D40. A few times when making a spirited climb up Cunningham's Gap (east side) the temperature gauge climbed considerable. Easing off the pressure and selecting a lower gear also reduced the gauge temperature to a more normal reading. I am now a firm believer in that by learning to drive a vehicle so you don't overstress it, that can overcome the fetish for fitting gearbox oil coolers.

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Follow Up By: Member - Happy Explorer - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 18:26

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 18:26
Thanks for your reply Peter.
I believe you are right on the money here. And of course with an OBD gauge monitoring both pan temp and TC temp it makes it easier to see in real time just what is happening temperature wise in the transmission. I agree about the limited value of the oil cooler. I fitted one first up but as I said earlier, it may have helped a bit but certainly did not cure any temperature problems, hence the need to take on board the points you have just raised.
You and others have chimed in with sensible and informative information on this thread that should be helpful for many to take on board when towing.
I know it has helped me.
Thanks
Roy G
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Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 19:20

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 19:20
To Kier and Happy Ex.
Kier, a Lock up clutch Cannot increase torque. That is untrue!

Happy Ex
You still haven't said IF YOUR COOLER is in the HOTTEST LINE or the coldest one. If in the return to pan line, you won't see much difference as you observed. Maybe you are not seeing it the best way around!
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Follow Up By: Member - Happy Explorer - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 20:00

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 20:00
I can't answer right now where my cooler is plumbed in. I don't remember. I gave it much consideration at the time (many years ago now) and could not see any one way as being a whole lot more righter than the other.
In the finish I did it the way I did because it was 1. the way the supplier recommended and 2. it was much easier to route the hoses. I will check it tomorrow, too cold and dark out there now.
The way I see it though, is that the heat being generated in the slipping T/C is being generated no matter how many coolers you have or where you plumb them. That fluid is hot and will stay that way until effectively cooled and 150 deg C is just too hot I feel. Hence my support for what Peter and others have said about modifying driving technique to avoid the extreme temperatures in the first place. And to just reiterate again, unless one is monitoring the pan and T/C temperatures they will not know if an adjustment is required or in fact adequate. It amazed me just how much heat was generated and how quickly it rose with poor technique and how quickly it dropped with a change in driving style. None of this would register quickly enough on the factory engine temp gauge.
At the end of the day it is probably like debating whether one should place a second fuel filter before or after the factory filter. Every one has an opinion including those that say don't fit one at all. All can argue their point but really the best option is to only put clean fuel in the tank in the first place I guess.
Roy
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Follow Up By: RMD - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 22:28

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 22:28
Happy Ex
I see you may have plumbed the cooler where the supplier indicates. Most people, EVEN autotrans people say to place it in the return line, for some reason, unsure what that reason is. I think you are a bit misled in my opinion. Yes the TC does exit a lot of heat under some circumstances, but claiming 'no matter how many cooler you have or where you put them" is not true at all. A proper sized cooler with decent tube size and fin area CAN dissipate a large amount of heat,ie, far less hitting the radiator If the fluid temp entering is 150C and the ambient is 35C, then you have a heat differential of 135C. That substantial difference allows for great removal of heat amount from the fluid BEFORE the fluid gets to the already HOT radiator which may be a bit cooler at the bottom than the 85C-90C rad water temp, Then, if the 150C is first into the radiator of around 90C of rad coolant you only have a negative differential of 60C. That means great heat is then added to the ENGINE COOLANT, (not desirable to me), and stresses the engine cooling system very hard. It leaves the radiator temp at the bottom quite hot. Hotter than normal, and that NOW hotter than normal water is then being asked to cool the ALREADY hot, hard working under towing load engine. It is no wonder you suddenly see vehicles stopped on hot days or engine derates from over temp in order to save itself from destruction. Having the fluid cooler as it gets back to the trans is desirable. Hot exiting isn't such a bad thing but a cooked auto IS.
It is all a balance of thermodynamics but some seem to want to keep their finger on one side of the balance beam for unknown reasons. Manufacturers make their systems with some degree of reserve ability/capacity but people seem to love to push to the limit.
If the engine revs are lower, engine under load, heat unput high, the water pump is going slower too and the passing of water through the engine and the radiator IS SLOWER. Having it cycling faster increases cooling rates enormously. Too slow and it cooks. I drove coaches up Cunninhams Gap on hot days and although it would pull up in higher gear, unless a change down was performed to run engine and system faster, the heat runaway happened within 20 seconds or so and was then hard to control.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 22:58

Tuesday, Aug 06, 2024 at 22:58
What gets me is that they mount the oil cooler in front of the radiator. Does not that mean that you remove the heat from the transmission oil and then feed it back into the radiator via the hotter air presented to the radiator. Perhaps there may not be much heat returned to the radiator, but on the other hand, the hotter air being presented to the radiator will mean that there will be less engine heat will be removed from it. I think it is better to learn to drive so you do not generate as much heat in the first place.
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Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 14:26

Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 14:26
Hi RMD,
You are correct in that the engine is not producing any more torque. However, horsepower equals torque x rpm/5252 (imperial units). So at a constant engine speed with the torque converter unlocked, there is some horsepower being lost through the torque converter, and therefore less horsepower available at the wheels. When the TC locks, there's no longer power being lost at the torque converter, so there is more power delivered to the wheels. If rpm is constant, then torque is directly related to horsepower. So locking up the TC at any speed results in more torque being available at the wheels. It's very easily demonstrated every time you are accelerating with the MM4x4 device controlling lock-up. When the blue light comes on indicating lock-up, you can feel the extra torque giving you more acceleration.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 16:35

Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 16:35
Kier,
Sorry, but the purpose of a torque converter is to AMPLLIFY the torque by redirection of fluid being redirected via the stator WHICH IS NOW firing fluid against the back of the TC fins and assisting in driving the exit turbine around under load. You mention horsepower. That is not the issue it is TORQUE. In doing that some horsepower is absorbed as heat into the fluid. A stalled Torque converter is the other extreme with maximum slip. STATOR completely locked on it's one way sprag clutch, but most will AMPLIFY torque by more than TWICE that of the input shaft under those conditions. Exactly how/why an auto can apply far greater torque to the transmission output shaft than a manual can do. Therefore it can pull a heavier load up a steeper hill than ANY manual can. It is called torque multiplication but generates fluid heat to achieve it!
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Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 16:56

Wednesday, Aug 07, 2024 at 16:56
RMD,
The torque converter amplifies the torque by reducing the RPM of the output shaft, but drains some power in the process. With a locked-up TC, there is no power loss. If you read my post carefully, you will note that I mention constant RPM. With the same RPM on the input and output shaft of the TC, the whole torque of the engine appears at the output shaft. With the TC unlocked, more torque appears on the output shaft, but at a lower RPM.
Power is the rate at which work is done. The engine produces power and a proportion of that power arrives at the wheels to propel the vehicle; power is lost through the drivetrain. The higher the power losses in the drivetrain, the less power there is to propel the vehicle. With an unlocked TC, there is less power at the wheels.
Keir
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