LED Headlight Globes

I know the standard wiring loom is typically on the smaller side, I didn't go for the 100w replacements before knowing that. I think the LED's i was looking at were between 35 and 50 w. I think the Philips i had were a good happy medium, a little whiter, longer beam and still fall into the same basic category as the originals. I was a little disappointed at the life span of the Philips at around $60. My Holden has Xenon Headlights standard so i know how bright they can be, but they auto level adjust, I never get flashed for my lights, but as i said, i rarely have a reason to drive at night. Maybe a new harness is the go, they are fairly inexpensive i think. Thanks for the reply. Michael

Heavier wiring wont make std bulbs last longer, only if there is a poor connection making and breaking with vibration which you would know about if you had one.
It could well make them a touch brighter but this would shorten the bulb life if anything.

After using and selling headlight bulbs and done countless repairs and maximising headlight efficiency on a case by case basis from back in the 6 volt VW days I would only use GE or Tunsram bulbs, they just seem to last longer.

If your happy with the light output and only dissatisfied with the lifespan then try a pair of std GE bulbs.

Your reflector/lense combination has been designed for one type of bulb only and would not be legal if anything else is fitted.

Heavier, ie, ample wiring, does increase voltage at the globe pins and they then run at or near to designed voltage. Going from 11 volts to 13.5 v at the globe DOES increase brilliance quite markedly. Correct voltage does not shorten globe life , it is as designed. High wattage globes have short lives because of thermal startup temp shock. A well known phenomenon. Lower, ie, std wattage globes on full voltage have long life and emit a higher colour temp too,

Did you work that out all by your self, going up 2.5 volts will increase the brightness, well done.
But dont know how you come up with an element running cooler will shorten its life. Cooler metal is stronger than hotter metal, hence 55 watt bulbs last longer than 90 or 100 watt low beams that people think will double the light output.

And yes I am aware of what you call thermal shock but it is more lack of heat that causes the shock.

When high wattage bulbs started coming out solid state relays using a transistor showed up with them to soft start them to lessen the element movement, seemed to do that ok but didnt stop the bulbs getting so hot the plastic on the wiring melting and dripping off and reflectors blistering
and nylon reflector supports weakening.

QLD
What do you mean, "did I work that out by myself" The std vehicle wiring acts as a resistor in the circuit and limits voltage level at the globe. If tested and found to be under par, making it correct does increase the output. A decent wire loom, relay fed, restores the voltage which should have been there in from the outset.
At no time did I say the "filament" runs cooler. Not sure where you got that from! 55w globes at their correct voltage run hotter than when on 11 volts and also run hotter than 100w globes do,. Please don't confuse the actual temp of the globe with the heat wattage being dispersed, entirely two different things there.
Heat shock is when a COLD 100w or greater is suddenly fed instant full voltage, it destroys the filament eventually as they cannot withstand the suddenness of heating. 55w last far better AND at full voltage emits close to the same light output as a 100w trying to work on poor wiring and nearly half the current draw. Fact!

People wanting to use 100w or greater used to use a relay through a resistor to pre heat the globe filament and as it turned on the rise in voltage turned on the second main relay which provided full power and far less instant heating. This was before transistor controls of such things. 100w in modern reflectors simply cook the reflector. Not a problem with 55w usually as the actual heat radiated is less although internally running hotter. 55w is only a bit over 100w heat value I believe. I was involved in modifying headlights a few years ago and we used to fit computer fans in some higher wattage headlights to distribute the heat to the case. If not they melted.

You need to do a little more googling to actually understand what causes the filament damage on turn on, it isnt sudden heating. Just goes to show a lack of formal training in the area.

What was your trade or profession before the interned existed and you become an expert in everything?

"Did you work that out all by your self"

"What was your trade or profession before the interned existed and you become an expert in everything?"

qldcamper - I won't enter the debate over the globes, but I just wonder why you think such an adversarial & narky attitude to your fellow forum member is acceptable?

By all means express a different view - but play the ball, not the man.

Maybe because im sick of being argued with by people that only think they know what they are talking about. Self proclaimed experts in everything.

If i post a response to someone it is because i know what im talking about through years of training and experience, not because i spent half an hour or so googling it.

I only know one profession well and limit my advice to it, not pretend i know everything and get offended if i get corrected if im banging on about something i dont really know about.

Obviously you never had manners or common courtesy in your profession..or were you a professional grumpy old sack?

QLD
Oh I see! When a globe turns on it then doesn't suddenly become heated by having a high current through it?. Instantaneous current, a bit of a shock I reckon, is in excess of 24 amps , running normally around 8 amps in a 100 watt "tungsten" globe, you said it was tunsten, must be different type, we are talking about.
I wasn't educated by google, sorry.

We all have years of training and experience, it is the understanding of concepts which matters.

Observations:

All the high power bulbs I have tried these days are "equivalent to a 100W" they generally don't draw anymore than the standard bulbs, they just run much hotter filaments? I have also found the Philips bulbs not to have a long life span.

"Correct voltage does not shorten globe life"

True statement, a bulb will be rated at a certain voltage, the expected life rating will be at that voltage, so yes running the light at its correct voltage will not shorten its life in that regard. It may last longer at a lower voltage though.

"You need to do a little more googling to actually understand what causes the filament damage on turn on, it isnt sudden heating. Just goes to show a lack of formal training in the area."

I'm interested in the above, never really looked into this but I assumed that over many cycles the expansion during heating and contraction during cooling would eventually cause metal fatigue. Them maybe uneven loss of material in the filament due to it burning causing hot spots in the filament?

Eventually the filament possibly will fail when it expands one time to many as it expands or perhaps when a hotspot causes the filament to melt?

Upon the high recommendation of QLD, I did google it as instructed and it mentioned the heating causing failures in the Tungsten material, which then cracks and parts, ie, no light on. Going from 23 C or so, to close to 2000 C or higher is a bit of a shock and the failing thinned crack then gets hotter until it fails. Tungsten melts at 3422 C apparently, I knew it was 'ot. All much the same as I expected from my limited understanding and knowledge base.

On a cold frosty morning, allowing your windscreen to slowly warm up is acceptable practice, suddenly pouring boiling water on it may cause it to fail, if not try again. It is only thermal shock.

Does get quite warm I read once about the "Brighter" Quartz halogen bulbs, from memory the filament gets so hot it vaporizes but then the quartz shell and gas inside the bulb somehow causes the vaporized material to recombine with the filament. Very high tech bulbs.

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I would believe some of the postings above to contain a number of errors relative to established and published engineering information. But comment in detail would possibly offend and start a bunfight. I would suggest that any interested reader consult established authoritative sources for confirmation including on anything that I may say.

But I would add further to HKB's expressed interest re "....what causes the filament damage on turn on...."
Although there is a high (typically 14x) initial current at turn on that diminishes to operating current within about 0.02 seconds and it is not a factor which causes any harm to the filament, although it may be a problem to incorrectly rated switch contacts or semiconductor components controlling the lamp.

I have not seen knowledgeable expressions of concern regarding "sudden heating". Current through any conductor will generate heat and only cause a problem if it is maintained long enough to melt the conductor. In the case of a lamp this heating is within the filament's tolerance and the current progressively diminishes as the filament heats over a period of about 0.02 seconds. It is within the design parameters of the lamp and the whole process is self regulating.

I do not recall discourse on filament metal fatigue due to heating and cooling but there certainly is filament decay to to progressive loss of metal due to its temperature which eventually causes filament failure. This failure often occurs at switch-on as the filament is now out of the design parameter.

The nomograph below may be useful to understanding the effects on an incandescent lamp in relation to the applied voltage. This nomograph is for gas-filled lamps. Halogen lamps will have some value difference but still behave in the same manner.

Ok, RMD i never mentioned the metal the filament was made of, what i mentioned was a brand name or manufacturer not a typo of a metal name. Thought you would have known that with your previous experience in headlight improvements.

HKB, you mentioned the reason, high current draw before setteling down with heat. That high current also causes a lot of magnetic flux that causes a lot of movement in the coil shaped conductor being the filament which does in fact cause fatigue which and is exactly why the incandescent house hold bulbs always seemed to pop on turn on.

Glad you had enough time to google some more facts RMD but doesnt seem you found the right info.... keep trying mate.

Allan, good to hear from you, hope all is well.

HBK
I am aware the later halogen globes did run hotter and some material vapourizes off the filament. I read the fine particles float in the gas but not stick to the quartz envelope. Only mobile while heated, the tungsten particles recombine on the body of the filament as it cools. Smart stuff whoever made it happen.

QLD
Do you mean TUNGSRAM halogen globes by any chance?

qldcamper, you have had a go at at least one person here, because you proclaim to have expertise in a subject...but you don't state what qualifications you have ?
Using and selling headlight globes is the only claim to fame you have stated.....??
I have been a tradesperson all my life, but I don't claim to have the best knowledge on any subject, but if I can, I like to offer advice....not tell someone my advice is gospel !!
Lighten up and offer advice.....don't preach.

Good side step RMD, i left a letter out.

Gronk, expert, maybe not but i do know a fair bit about auto electrics having worked in the trade since 1978 .

What is your trade?

Still waiting to hear what RMD's is.

I'm an electrical fitter. I've worked in the trade since 1975, but really, I know bugger all. When you work in one aspect of a trade, you learn nothing about other trades that use the same qualifications.
Now, if I was an electrical engineer, I could claim to have a bit more authority on elect subjects, but by no means gives me the right to say I know it all.
Same as some auto elects....some claim to be good at their trade, but fail when it comes to sizing of wires to charge batteries in a van ?

Couldnt agree more Gronk, thats why I only post what I know to be true from experience and get annoyed when people with little experience other than google and maybe back yard experience want to disagree and spend hours googling and bang on quoting freshly googled terms they dont really know if the source is correct or not.

You and I were trained before the internet and stuff in print was generally correct or wouldnt have been published. The internet changed that and most of what is on there isnt exactly correct but people dont realise it so then they repeat it thinking they know what they are talking about. Try correcting them and you get ridiculed and basically told your decades in a specialised field adds up to squat because you left a letter out of a brand name.

You should try working with a young apprentice these days, dont know why they still have apprenticeships because they already know absolutly everything till their phone battery goes flat.

"Try correcting them and you get ridiculed"

qldcamper - No-one in this thread has ridiculed you. You have persisted in responding as though you have been ridiculed however. Unfortunately this places a shadow on the knowledge you have & are trying to impart. My comment here is not about your knowledge which I accept that you have from long experience, but about how a defensive manner invites the very thing which irritates you. Perhaps your experience off forum that you mention has conditioned you to expect ridicule & argument, but that is not what has occurred here.

I am not trying to 'have a go'. I just find some of the regular grumpiness & lack of respect for others, on this forum in general, tiresome & unnecessary & feel that saying nothing would be condoning it. Nothing personal. I for one am always keen to learn from those with greater experience than myself.

This particular thread is of interest to me as I too have a Patrol with crappy headlights, & I am still unsure, having fitted supposedly brighter H4 globes with no benefit gained, whether I might be better to spend money on an LED light bar, replacement headlight loom and/or new reflector units.

If you have crappy lights there is no "magic" fix. As RMD pointed out low voltage could well be a problem but dont just assume it, measure it at the light itself.
Look at the mechanics of the light like reflector condition and mount security. Are the bulbs fitted correctly, it is amazing how some of the bulbs have been jamed in that i have seen, it is critical that those filaments are in the exact position. Are the lenses clean and clear?
Once you have identified the problem or often is the case problems you have a good chance of rectifying the poor performance.

To test the voltage on a H4 bulb looking from the plug side with the un parallel terminal at the top the terminal on the left is common and can be either positive or negative depending on the vehicle, the opposite parallel terminal is high beam.

Other points in your post noted and i thank you.

Not only that, I find it really annoying driving towards some DH who is now blinding oncoming drivers.

Why not just buy a LED bar or something similar that you can use when there is nobody coming towards you.

Is it legal to fit these globes to your car?

Yes i agree, I haven't bothered with LED brake globes or parkers, they never work out as you expect. Blinker can is an issue as you said. I have standard wheels because aftermarket don't fit tight around the hub like original rims so the studs take all the load. In the main, i like standard too. As i get older, i care less about changing things if the original works. Michael

Kazza, i was hoping someone might know about the legality of them also. Michael

I've often wished to insert LED headlights (and HID), still illuminated, where the sun doesn't shine.
LED's in a fitting designed for halogen don't seem to have the origin of the light at the exact same spot as the halogen bulb. This causes the parabolic reflector to direct light where it shouldn't be going. This is particularly problematic on low beam approaching, or tailing other traffic.

Michael,

" i was hoping someone might know about the legality of them also. Michael"

It is illegal in NSW to have LED or HID bulbs in headlights not designed for them.

I suspect that is the case in all states as it's an ADR restriction.

Sorry, I don't have the documentation, but I have read it somewhere authoritative.

Not so long ago, LED inserts were fairly crude looking, Ebay had a 100 different designs so as Genny says, they can't be designed for the shape of the reflector. They are just cobbled together on a particular base. I guess that's why I'm asking the question, A few years on I thought some real technology may be engineered into them now as they have been around for a while now. Michael

Michael
Have a look at STEDI lights in Melbourne [LED] they have them for your model and also have a comparison pictures between the two, plus full specs and 2 year warranty.

Matt

ADR & LEGALITIES
The following is from the STEDI site:

The below extract has been taken from the http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_VS_IB_132.pdf

IB-132C Vehicle Safety and Standards Information Bulletin (Updated August 2017)

LED headlight replacements globe Similar to HID lights, LED lights to produce more light to the amount of power they consume. The retro-fitting of aftermarket conversions of LED lights and/or light assemblies to the dipped beam (low beam) circuit of a vehicle does not guarantee that they will comply with ADR performance requirements applicable to the vehicle which may make them non-compliant for road use. The fitting of such lights and/or light assemblies is considered altering a vehicle from the manufacturer’s specifications which classify the vehicle as a modified vehicle. The vehicle is required to be examined to determine if the vehicle meets the requirements under ADR13.

Thanks for that, i'm just looking at them now, Its not that i wanted dazzling headlights, i thought that LED should be more reliable, run a little cooler and use less power. Technology surges ahead, straight past us sometimes, so its always worth seeing whats new.. Thank you. Michael

Not sure about the run cooler, the units I have heat sink tails that come old the back of the mounting to cool the leads, I don't know if that is to protect the plastic reflector housing or just to dissipate the heat away from the LED block, both I suspect. The life of the units should be way longer than conventional globes but that depends on the design of the setup. The Stedi's appear to be quality units and have a very good reputation.

I have had them in for a couple of years but use the headlights seldom, still it was the same for the Phillips globes and one of them burnt out in a similar period.

Another heads up for the Stedi conversions. Have passed rego inspection for 2 years now...and I have never been flashed on low beam yet. They are supposed to be ADR compliant ...but have no proof of this either...plus I have a Stedi lightbar and IPF HIDs as well on my truck...so the extra spread from the LEDs is appreciated when I dip the rest fo oncoming traffic.

Cheers Keith

Thanks Ron, they look to have similar features to the Philips. They may have a longer life..

Michael, I think if you get around 2 to 3 years out of Halogen globes today, that is about the average.

I've had the Nightbreakers in the Hilux for about 2 1/2 years, I do a reasonable amount of country driving in daylight, with the headlights on a lot of the time - and a bit of night driving in the bush as well.

Neither of the Nightbreakers in the Hilux has failed yet - but the pair I fitted into the Missus's Camry Atara about 3 years ago, one has just failed.

But she runs around with the lights on continuously - and we have done a bit of touring around the wheatbelt in the Camry. I'm sure high speeds and country roads shorten any globes lifespan.

Cheers, Ron.

HKB & Keith P - what vehicles do you have your Stedi headlight conversions in?

I am considering them fo our '06 GU Patrol.

I tried fancy 130% Phillips halogen globes & although the light output was less yellow they made little difference over standard 60/55w

As discussed elsewhere, I checked for voltage drop today, voltage at the headlight conector was the same as at the battery. Reflectors & glass in good condition. Just rubbish lights. Would love to hear from anyone with the same lights who has fitted the Stedi Copper Heads. Don't want to spend $150 only to find I still have rubbish lights.

We don't do a lot of night driving, but when we do it'd be good to be able to see far better than we currently can. Driving 70 odd kms through the Milstream Chichester NP in pitch black at snails pace with lights like candles was traumatic.

Even if I do buy the 'headlight conversion' I think I'll be getting a light bar too - the Stedi 27.5" 3301 looks like it would suit - sides, near & mid distance. If we are using them we'll be driving slowly, so long distance high beam is of little value to us. It may be that the light bar alone would suffice however.

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Hi Cuppa, I may be asking the 'Bleeding Obvious' but when you measured the voltage at the headlight connector was the connector still plugged onto the headlight and the light illuminating? Or had you pulled the connector off the light to take the voltage measurement?

Hi Allan, I removed the connector from the headlight. Now that you ask I have a sneaking suspicion that was the wrong thing to do? I did it both with engine off & running, with lights turned on & just one headlight disconnected.

Should I partially pull the headlight connector off so I can get the multimeter probe onto the terminal with the light operating?

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Thought so Cuppa. When you said "same as at battery" I twigged. When the headlight is operating and drawing current there will be some voltage drop due to losses in the cables.
Yes, just pull the connector off enough to get the voltmeter probes in and be sure the light is on.
Normally the voltage there will about 1 volt less than at the battery. Be sure the headlight is still on when measuring at the battery. If the difference in the voltages is much more than 1 volt then it means that you are losing too much in the wiring and your headlight brilliance will suffer.
The actual voltages will be more significant if the motor is running at a fast idle as this is what the headlamps will be seeing in normal operation. Although the cable voltage loss will be about the same, running or not.

Does the GU have the same headlight wiring as the poor setup in the GQ , with no relay and the switch on the stalk part of the power circuit?

Allan B - I just tested for voltage drop, correctly this time, with the headlight switched on & connector on the globe. On Low beam I got a max drop of 1.4v when the battery was showing 14.03v (motor running).

Now if a drop of 1v is around 'normal' I'm wondering if going with a heavier harness cable to 'claw back' the 0.4v will see a worthwhile improvement in lighting performance. An aftermarket harness upgrade from Patrolapart is $285.

Warren H, I am not sure what the setup is, it's an ex telstra vehicle which came with an additional pair of driving lights & the cabling for these is piggy backed off the original headlight connectors. Trying to trace the wires back from the headlight connector takes me to what I am guessing is a 'factory' relay - see pic - Another of the wires,a heavier one , runs from this 'relay' via an inline fuse to a positive connection at the end of an array of fuses.- see second pic. This connection is used , I suspect as an alternative to the battery positive ........ reinforcing my belief that what I think is a relay is a relay , so I'm guessing that the original switching at the stalk has probably been bypassed?? If indeed it was originally switched at the stalk?? Any thoughts/confirmation of this would be welcome.

EDIT: Confirmed it's a 6 pin Nissan Relay - mind you I have not seen one like this before - it looks like it switches two circuits at the same time??

A quick search of Patrol4x4 seems to indicate that in original configuration, like the gq, the gu doesn't have a headlight relay, but given the 20 y lifespan and various series, perhaps that changed. From what I read, the reason for the dual circuit relay is that ADRs require lh and rh headlights to have separate circuits. Wouldn't be surprised if the Telstra vehicles have upgraded specs. There were some dual rear axle variants of the cab/chassis version kicking around in use by the utility companies.

Over the decades, I've found that mild corrosion on bayonet connectors is a problem, where the harness plugs are not sealed with a rubber boot or plug seals.

The mild corrosion between the bayonets and their mating female connectors leads to increased resistance that lowers voltage.

I treat these connectors to a bath in CLR, using a small plastic cut-down container that is just large enough to hold the connector and a quantity of CLR.

After a short period in the bath (anywhere from 20 mins to a couple of hours, depending on the corrosion level, and the treatment result), I pull the connector out of the CLR, wash it thoroughly with clean water, dry it (hair dryer is good), and reconnect.

The result is often a noticeable improvement in voltage levels, and increased brightness of headlights.

Cheers, Ron.

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Cuppa,

From your photos I can see that the relay is a Nissan part so likely an original in the vehicle and so with the original wiring arrangement.
I can also see that it is a 'double-pole' relay, i.e. it has two separate contacts operated by the one coil. This means that both circuits will be on or off at the same time, so it is not switching from high to low beam, merely supplying 12v power to each headlight simultaneously but separately. All this adds up to the headlights high and low beam switching to be in the negative line...... the headlight is supplied with nominally 12v positive and the stalk switch earths either the high or low filament as selected. In other words it is a 'negatively switched system' and I believe this is common for the Patrol vehicles. I see nothing to suggest that your vehicle has been modified from the original.

If the 14v from the battery is reduced to 12.6v at the headlight then 1.4v is being lost along the way. This loss may be in the wiring (too small?) or in the relay contacts (dirty?) or any of the connections (at the fuse box, the relay plug-in connections, or the headlight connectors).
It is likely that you may also be losing some voltage in the wiring to the stalk switch, in the switch contacts, or in the various connections along the way. This is always a 'lossy' path and inevitably gets worse as the vehicle ages.

If you are only seeing 12.6v at the headlight when the battery is at 14v then this is 90% of the available voltage and using the nomograph above reveals that this is would produce only 70% lumen output of what would be achieved with 14v. Getting that headlight voltage up would be a big improvement in light output.

Installing a loom with relays in the path between the stalk switch and the headlamps would be very likely to improve the situation. The stalk switch would then be only required to handle the negligible current of the relay coils which would be mounted close to the headlights thus reducing the filament current path and eliminating present losses. The upgrade loom you referenced is I believe Patrolapart p/n LISL but I see it as $265 on their site. As it comes as a made-up loom with all parts and instructions it should be simple to install. The existing relay and wiring from the fuse box to the headlights would be retained as the 12v supply and the new loom and relays would manage the high/low switching.

Hope this is of some help to you. I am not closely familiar with the Patrol but with a bit of luck someone else with specific Nissan Patrol experience may offer more.

Michael, Allan, Cuppa et al,

Over the years, I've spent many hundreds, maybe thousands of $$$ chasing the ultimate mouse............oops, headlight.

I've bought H/D wiring looms from both Piranha & ARB, but wouldn't say which is the better unit. Changing the OE headlight lens, for the Hella, Narva or IPF offerings does make a little difference. I'm using the Philips ultra bright globes at the moment but they don't last long.

Used HID headlight inserts for maybe 10 years, and they're good, as long as you lower the beam a little. As noted, many opt for light bars as an easy upgrade for high beams & 20"-24" units with fit easily but provide adequate lighting. If money is no object, then one needs the following: 2 x Hella 4000's, with HID inserts, and 2 x Peak Explorers LEDs. The latter are a small (6") but potent unit, about $600 ea.

An old singlet & some Windex are handy for keeping the h'light lens clean too. Improves vision by 15%, some say.

Bob

There's some good info from the bloke on the website below, as regards voltage drop in automotive applications.

How Connections Affect Voltage Drop

Cheers, Ron.

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Hi Bob,

My search for improved lighting was for decent headlights on the highway and in the suburbs. I rarely drive in the Bush at night and I already had HID driving lights, but my Troopy OEM headlights were pitiful, or was it my eyes. Whatever, but something had to improve. I was led to these 'American Truck' sealed beam LED replacements and I thought "what could possibly be better than good 'ol American Trucks from the USofA ?
Well, the fantasy became a reality...... they worked just fine for what I wanted..... at a price of $800 for the pair..... but I was desperate. I just pray that one does not fail before I do!

The good thing about LED's is that in drawing less current, they induce less volt-drop. And their light output is not affected with a bit lower voltage, the driver just takes care of it, so you get specification output without needing major wiring upgrades. I really think we are past HID's for many reasons.

It looks like the prices are dropping on those Peak Explorer lights...... and Hell, they needed to!.

Michael, I will just run through the procedure I use to see what sort of improvement you can expect by minimising voltage drop in headlight circuits, however RMD will contradict it just out of reflex, I have been doing it this way for many years.

Firstly identify what part of the circuit the VD is in, usually a little in both positive and the negative side, do this by first turning on the low or high beam but do both. If the VD is in the common terminal do both sides separately, then probe say the positive terminal on the bulb with the negative multi meter probe and the positive battery terminal with the positive probe, this will tell you the exact VD in that circuit, do the same with the negative side of the bulb and then you will know where the biggest VD is.

Then get a length of wire with say a 10 amp fuse in, and run from the battery terminal direct to the bulb on the suspect circuit with the light turned on and flash the wire on and off the terminal, you will see what gain you will achieve this way.

Just be 200% sure your on the right terminals, if you get it wrong you risk damage to the dip switch or other circuitry.

If the car is facing a near by wall it is easy to see the improvement as you make and break the circuit.

.
Having the car "facing a nearby wall" is also useful if you happen to accidentaly plonk your test wire on the starter circuit. LOL

LOL Allan, best stand to the side too.

Thank you all for your input, it has been helpful. I am now leaning toward a heavier gauge headlight wiring loom, plus the addition of an LED light bar. I am thinking that I should be able to switch the light bar on together with the existing two IPF driving lights. The main reason for doing this is to avoid having to take any cabling through the firewall & add another switch to the dash. I have a bad back & anything behind the dash inevitably means contortion & subsequent suffering. We are currently a long way from autoelectrical services & expect to remain here for the duration of the virus. Improving night driving vision can be considered a 'Lockdown project.'

So ... Fitting a new harness should sidestep the likely combined causes of age induced voltage drop.

However I still remain unsure about that relay. I can feel it click if I hold it & operate it. It does nothing when switching lights on/off, but gives a definite click when switching between high & low beam .

If the dip switch in the cab operates the relay only (low current) I think it potentially makes rewiring far simpler. Instead of buying a ready made loom with multiple relays, I'm wondering if I could save myself considerable expense by just buying a roll of 6mm cable & a few H4 connectors to essentially copy what I already have on the higher current side of that relay.

If I were to disconnect the heavier positive cable into the relay from it's supply at the end of the fuse tray, turn on the light switch & flick between hi & low beam (no lights on) I am guessing it may still operate the relay. Would this mean that the switching was NOT at the stalk? And if that were the case can anyone see any problem with just recreating what I already have using heavier cable. Or should I just bite the bullet & confirm which are the switching wires from the cab, remove the relay & start afresh with an aftermarket multi -relay wiring harness?

Again I welcome any thoughts

Cuppa,

Sorry missed your post above, vehicle is a Prado

The only certainty is that the relay can be felt & heard to click when I change from low to high beam or vice versa.

I could be quite wrong, but currently I think this is probably what I have, or close to it. (Crap drawing, but hopefully self explanatory). Having drawn it, I feel it is unlikely to be a factory setup, just that the use of a genuine Nissan Double pole relay ( presumably from some other application?) has confused the issue.

Found this thread, with accompanying wiring diagram. Thread indicates lack of a relay is standard configuration.
GU headlights

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Cuppa,

I assumed negative switching but from the wiring diagram that Warren has provided it shows the headlights as positive switching. I have seen comments that both positive and negative have been used for Patrols but cannot verify either. Without being sure about this I really cannot provide definitive advice.

The diagram you provided looks very much as a "flasher" circuit where both high and low filaments of both headlights are briefly switched on when the stalk switch is pulled fully toward the driver, i.e. past the low beam position. However, that function is normally provided within the light switch without any relay or additional wiring.

Although the relay is a Nissan factory type it may not have been factory-fitted. It may be a Nissan relay fitted during an after-market modification. It really is impossible to comment further without inspection or more reliable information. To do so would be just guesswork. Sorry.

Thanks Allan, I believe our thinking is converging. Perhaps Telstra specified the need for the relay on their vehicles. Seems to me it is probably either used as in my diagram or to energise the left & right headlight circuits simultaneously but separately. Looks like I may have a bit more wire tracing to do tomorrow, Once I know how the relay is connected it should be a relatively simple task to fit or make a new wiring loom. Appreciate the thought that you & all the others have put into this for me.

Cuppa

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Cuppa, I have just remembered something....... I have noticed that many, if not all, of the Telstra vehicles drive with their headlights on in daylight. I had assumed that this was done under instruction but maybe it was because the vehicles were modified. If so, it would require a circuit just as you have with the relay coil powered from the ignition. Furthermore, if the mod was done by the dealer before delivery then it would be likely that the relay would be a Nissan brand.

It does not explain your observation of the relay "clicking" with the high-low beam switching. But to test my proposition, switch the headlights off, then turn on the ignition and see if the headlights go on.

Yes Allan telstra as well as mine spec vehicles always have their lights on when running. There are dozens of different kits for this, rarely see 2 the same.

Cuppa, your hand drawn diagram has the earth terminal in the wrong spot.
The common terminal is the left, lo beam is the top and hi is the right.

Allan, good thinking, but not so in my car. Headlights have never come on without me first switching them on. Being a 2006 model perhaps it pre-dated the Telstra 'hard wiring' of headlights on??

Once I have worked out which wires go to where from the relay I'll draw it up & post it. The process of doing that will help me & may be of interest to yourself or others.

qldcamper - thanks - I thought there was a reasonable chance I had the terminals wrong. Your correction will save me some time when I begin wire tracing to see just how the relay is set up. Just for my clarification when you use the terms left & right is that looking at the 'pins' on the globe or looking at the removed connector from the globe side? :)

Looking at the terminals on the bulb.
Good luck tracing the wiring. The telstra system will have been bypassed but possibly left in there and maybe partially active.
Check around the steering coloum for disconnected wiring and start by removing anything thats been disconnected.

Thanks, you may call yourself qldcamper but your Pommie heritage shines through (pun intended). Takes one to know one. :)

Dam, I had 1 english grand mother. Other than that I decend from a wog country.
What gave it away lol.

'Bulb', rather than 'globe'

I use the word bulb as well and my pommie heritage goes back to the time of compulsory passage. If wog equals worthy oriental gentleman, I qualify there as well, plus a more recent injection of Aryan master race so a bit of a mongrel really! Back in the 60s when I was a kid, the Australian vernacular was more English - tea time, lorries on the street, although this only referred to local delivery vehicles. Long distance semi-trailers were trucks. Anyway enough thread diversion : )

Some Progress.

I have ascertained that the double pole relay only relates to the IPF driving lights. With the relay disabled the headlights can still be switched on & changed between hi & lo beam.

It appears to be triggered by a red wire with black trace which comes through the firewall which is also connected to the driver side headlight high beam pin.

The diagram I had hoped to draw is in the too hard basket. Too many wires I can't access.

However it does appear that the headlights themselves are still operated from the original switching at the stalk, & the red/black wire is consistent with colour of the high beam wire on the driver side in the factory wiring diagram.

The wiring to the IPFdriving lights appears quite substantial but some of the factory wiring is very thin.

There are far too many piggy back connections in the loom, all of which had oxidised pins which I cleaned with a light emery buff (I know this is not the best way to do it, but it's all I had & besides this loom is going to be replaced soon).

Overall, I think I have a basic understanding of the operation, but there does seem to be more complexity than I would think necessary. For this reason I think I am going to buy a ready made replacement loom to power the headlights directly from the battery. Looking at the Pirahna super loom I believe I can fit it & utilise the 'driving light trigger' wire which is part of it to replace the red/black connection to the double pole relay.

I believe too that the wiring loom which is supplied with the Stedi Light bar should be able to have it's relay triggered either from an extension of the same trigger wire used to operate the existing relay, or from the power supply to the existing IPF driving lights(I imagine the former might be better). This way I keep the circuits for the IPF's & Stedi separate, but still switch on with the single switch I currently have for the IPF's

I am also not happy about having a 30amp blade fuse in the power supply cable, even though it has clearly been there a long time without problem. I'll wait to see what sort of fuses come with the pre-made looms before changing to something safer. I have seen too many melted fuseholders & know of at least two fires - all caused by oxidation of the blades & subsequent heat from the increased resistance. Happy to use blades for low amperage applications but not over 15 amps.

Think that all makes sense. Please tell me if it doesn't though!

Now to get back to the car to put back together all that I have dismantled to work out what was what! :)

Agree re the blade fuses. I've had a jumbo blade fuse holder (supposedly good for 60amps - I've seen 60A fuses for them) melt and nearly start a fire with a 40 amp fuse in a 30 amp circuit.

For in-line applications I have found Narva 54470 to be a much better option.

I can confirm that Tel$tra Commodores in the 1990's were modified for daylight running lights so I would have thought that your GU would most likely be the same, unless in the intervening years, the beancounters decided that the change was too expensive.

I know on our GQ, when I first started looking at improving headlights, I was absolutely amazed at how small gauge the headlight wires were and quickly built a harness that used the headlight connector to switch a relay to power them with as little large gauge wire as possible direct from the battery. That was better but still basically inadequate.

A little off topic. My fathers HZ wagon had the high beams stick on when the dipswitch that carried all the headlight current failed. No relays there either.

Hi again folks, it's been a while, but I thought I'd post a follow up to the discussion I had with a few of you about improving the lighting on my GU Patrol.

I did end up going for an aftermarket headlight wiring loom (Pirahna Superloom) as this was my easiest option away from home & limited tools/w/shop facilities. It was expensive for what you get, but it made my install easier. So I now have separate relays for high & low beams, with power coming directly from the battery through heavier gauge wiring. I haven't measured voltage at the globes since the install, but the lights are noticeably better. Brighter & whiter. They have gone from 'dangerous' to 'quite useable'. In addition I fitted a 27.5" Stedi ST3301 single row LED lightbar to the bullbar, in addition to the pair of older IPF driving lights. I went for 'simple', using the existing wiring to the IPF's to trigger the relay to the lightbar, having accessed it close to the IPF's, so 'downstream' from the Telstra installed Nissan relay for the IPF's. I have also, at least for the time being, left the on/off switch for the lightbar under the bonnet. The driving light dash switch when on allows both IPF's & lightbar to come on together when high beam is selected. This is my 'off road' set up. If I just want the IPF's alone (my 'on road' set up) I just flick the lightbar switch to off under the bonnet. So.... the stock headlights are significantly improved, the lightbar is literally brilliant (had never actually seen one in use before - so am quite blown away with it's performance), & the IPF's are 'functional' but disappointingly yellow compared to the headlights (Phillips Xtreme vision 55w/60w +130). I am waiting for new H3 globes in the mail for the IPF's, Phillips 'White Vision Ultra' with 160% distance pattern, advertised as the whitest road legal halogens. They are 55w & will replace a pair of Repco 100w +30's. Hopefully they will be as good or better, whilst giving the alternator a slightly easier time. I also neatened up my battery terminal arrangements with a pair of Unilug connectors, which are far better quality than any I've ever had before. Got them off ebay for $25 each, but have seen them for sale at double that price elsewhere! Thank you all for your input along the way. I am very happy with the results.

You have to be careful with USA LED headlights as they usually are not Emarked and Righthand drive.
There are UK manufacturers whose lights have emarking and the Left shift for low beam.

But they cost a bomb.

Thanks Allan but no thanks, i only need to see the road, not pave it in gold :)) Michael

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Rangiephil, I am not familiar with the term "Emarked". What is it?
The USA lights I referred to do not incorporate a side-shift, they go straight down and there is no left-right differentiation.

Allan,

With no side-shift would they meet ADRs?

Cheers

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Possibly not Frank. But I would be more concerned about my safety than the consequences of ADR non-compliance.

Emarked means that they are approved in the EU and the Emark is on the lens..
There are number following the Emark which denote whether RHD or LHD.
Emarking is accepted by ADRs.
Except that yuo have to have headlight levelling to be legal , And AFAIR headlight washers.

Interesting concept. I now have to worry about the firmware in my headlights crashing.