Swift Challenger caravan brakes

You could have worded that differently.
I tend to agree.
If your seeking advice from a forum on a valuable and critical component on a caravan.
Best be get a mechanic onto it than have a go yourself.
Or find a shop that will let you watch..
And give you some pointers in future for reference
Build up your confidence level.
Definitely get some pointers..

Id even go to the trouble of finding a mobile mechanic around your suburb.
Tell them on the phone your looking to do it yourself in future and want some pointers.
Get them to do a full going over
That way your getting one on one attention
And they earn their living as well.
And some of the mobile machanics dont really charge a huge rate
As they have not as high overheads as a commercial premises.
Im sure youll find someone to help you out

I'd suggest you (and others) not be too harsh just yet... have you ever seen the set up used by Swift?

The bearing nut is supposed to be tight - Alko state 290 Nm (±10 Nm). I can't speak for everyone, but I know that's more than "hand-tight" for me (unless you mean how tight you can do it by hand using a socket on the end of a long bar?)!

It has to be tight to hold the bearing onto the axle without a split-pin (not just pre-load the bearing), and it's a single use item so every time you remove it, you have to replace it with a new one (you don't want it coming undone on the road).

As far as I'm aware, the nuts are a regular thread (anti-clockwise to remove), but why would you? The bearings are maintenance-free sealed, and you can inspect brake lining without removing the drum anyway, thanks to an inspection opening on the backing plate - it all makes the typical setup we see in Aus look very agricultural, requiring significantly more maintenance.

I would say have your first go with guidance from someone with the knowledge and skills - don't just jump in the deep end and hope for the best.

Trial and error with wheels, bearings, seals and brakes can get expensive and sad when the error part happens.

Mac3
Because engineering techniques change over time, the axle nut may be secured with Loctite or similar. however the washer between it and the bearing inner cone would have a internal peg on it and a groove in the outer most part of the axle to ensure rotation doesn't happen. If a plain washer only, then relying on a Loctite to secure and hold the bearing adjustment and also the hub and wheel on the axle, is not what I would want. If mechanically informed then it all should be obvious, otherwise a trained person should be doing the work.
I don't agree the You Tube method of mechanical learning and appreciation is valid, in no way can the correct adjustment be gained by a video. By chance only with that method. It cannot provide education of feel and bearing preload or slight slackness to allow for hot brakes and expansion etc etc etc, many don't even pack the hub with enough grease. I would imagine Alko are in the business of selling and not educating people who haven't grown with mechanical understanding. Can be learnt of course but if you get it wrong the results are graphic and far reaching.

many don't even pack the hub with enough grease.

I don't pack the hub with ANY grease. I repack the bearing with grease and that's all.
Whatever grease is in the hub can't jump into the bearing, so it serves no purpose.

I was advised by an old mechanic to put grease on the spindle and a little grease enough to cover the outer ball race. That extra grease also helps cooling.

But certainly those that pack the hub with grease are asking for trouble. Too much grease can cause slippage of the balls rather than rotation.

eaglefree,

Don’t want slipping balls LOL

Macca.

The myth of minimal grease being ok is just that. Unless there is sufficient grease the fill the hub to above cup level, when it melts with heat of use, unless there is sufficient, it cannot circulate fresh grease through the cups, cones and rollers. The idea of just greasing the running surfaces ensure short bearing life. Therefore, the grease in the hub CAN get to the bearings. What is too much grease, it will not and cannot cause slippage at all, it is in there to lubricate. What nonsense! Not totally full of course. I used to service semi trailer bearings on bitumen tankers and my packing of grease ensured the expensive bearings lasted many seasons of running. Another bloke ONLY greased the cup and cone and that resulted in the EXPENSIVE bearings being stuffed and replaced on a yearly basis. For a bit of grease the bearings costs were 1/4 of the other way, the stupid minimal way. Personally I have never had to replace bearings in my own vehicles. Because they get lubricated well.
Edit. Many larger vehicles run heavy oil, ie, thin grease in their hubs, so the notion of minimal grease as being enough is rubbish. The transport sector want reliability, NOT FAILURES!

I think you are telling furpheys - *BIG* furpheys. Axle nuts would never be secured using thread retaining compound.
If you understood basic engineering, you would know why it was essential to have wheel bearing castle nuts secured with a split pin or an 'R' type pin as they do in Eastern Europe.
A blind person would be able to feel by the end of the thread if the nut was left or right hand. A sighted person would see in two seconds.
Alko would be wise to suggest professional help of more than one type!!!

RMD “what nonsense”? Well all you have to do to confirm my old mechanic might have a case with balls in bearing “slipping” rather than rolling is google it

Bearings over grease slippage

Here is one such site a few paragraph down

http://www.mototribology.com/there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-grease/

“Another possibility depending on just how much grease is in there is that the rollers in a bearing may not be able to roll properly and they end up sliding rather than rolling. This sliding friction causes more wear than rolling does and the ball or roller ends up wearing very unevenly and causes flattened surfaces to form and exacerbate the condition. The end result of all this is a bearing that has its life severely shortened due to excessive or abnormal wear.”

No wonder forums have so many more readers than contributors. Over reaction seems common.... but you feel better for it I suppose

Don't let a few keyboard jockeys turn you off posting mac. There's many a learned soul on here and many who would go out of their way to help. If you have any concerns just drop us a line.

The Mods

RMD that’s twice you mentioned my replies. By all means disagree with me, don’t hesitate to educate me, but don’t ridicule me for attempting to inform the OP of my knowledge however based, that isn’t a friendly way to go about things and you come across quite arrogant.

As said a few posts ago, many internet sites state not to fill hubs with grease eg

http://www.mototribology.com/there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-grease/

“Another possibility depending on just how much grease is in there is that the rollers in a bearing may not be able to roll properly and they end up sliding rather than rolling. This sliding friction causes more wear than rolling does and the ball or roller ends up wearing very unevenly and causes flattened surfaces to form and exacerbate the condition. The end result of all this is a bearing that has its life severely shortened due to excessive or abnormal wear.”

So according to you, all those sites suggestions are baseless not only my old mechanic friend.

Having had a job where we inspected, by strong magnifier, EVERY part of every bearing cup and cone and roller surfaces, I have never seen flats occur in any bearing. If poorly adjusted, That could only happen if there is end float and rollers are not being rolled and only then when the load is off those rollers, ie, at bottom of the bearing, at that time, if it really happened, means no load on the roller to cause flats. If the shaft is turning the roller, IF stopped, would be rotated again. Most shafts/hubs are constantly turning while running.
Because of centrifugal force the melted grease, as the hub gets hot and they do, results in any grease being centifugally thrown away from the surfaces of the bearing it is supposed to be there to lubricate. ONLY if there is sufficient grease, ie, to fill hub void, and be at a level between the seal lip and above ALL bearing cone edges do the bearings get proper lubrication.
I would like someone who only puts a bit of grease on the race and cup and then no more, explain how the then thrown away grease can ever return to provide a constant lube of the rolled surfaces. It doesn't and cannot happen. Result is hot running bearings and galling and blueing of the surfaces as they run hot to destruction. Some even then grab the axle and stuff that too. Want to use practically no grease, go ahead. I used to have direct examples of results both methods and in my job had the foreman grill me for using, in his opinion, too much grease. When I pointed out the cost saving in bearing replacements saved, actually 7 times longer than other method, he realized and went away. Do it once, do it properly, then there is no problems.
Many new vehicles have low grease in hubs, many have had replacements of bearings at low KM, some not reaching 25,000km, same vehicles greased sufficiently still ok at 200,000km. Lack of Grease and sufficient Grease being the only variable.
I know of mechanics who will not deliver sufficient grease to wheel hubs and I can never work out why not, if they understand the issue. When I gained my qualifications, only 9% of mechanics could pass the two day examination. Worrying it is! Many mechanics cause failures. Some are very good, minority, and some are not. I have seen people do their own bearings and not being a mechanic but have developed the necessary skills and component awareness required.

RMD,

I'm not sure what your on about either with this!, When you push the hub over the stub with the rear bearing and seal in place, if you have excess grease in there it only gets pushed to the front, s o the grease can really only be at stub level top and bottom, not much is going to work its way to the bearing, UNLESS the hub is totally full, ...then poor old seal

At the front you can load it up , but it always works away from the bearing ,not into it.

I think you forget that the quality of grease used plays a more important roll than the quantity providing the bearing is packed properly to start with.

If you where here ten years ago, you might remember that this exact topic was discussed for days with quite a few mechanics and it was agreed that to much grease was not a good thing and the bearing rollers can lock up FACT! I'm not a mechanic but in fifty years have sure learnt when some one is having a short circuit....lol.

Anyway its good everyone can have a opinion

Cheers Axle.

Axle
Thanks for your input. Interesting. The grease is placed so it is above the edge of the inner bearing and is in a circular manner. When the hub is placed on the axle, no grease is forced along to the outer, it remains in the well and near to the axle dia but has an airgap. I always place grease between the seal lip and the inner cone so the seal never runs dry/ hot and with burnt lip. Learnt that many years ago, no seal lube = failure of seal lip straight after installation.
Not sure what you mean top and bottom, the whole unit is tubular. I agree the grease quality is important but if it is just a smear, when it gets hot it isn't near the bearings due to centrifugal action. I do not consider the roller will lock up, the only resistance is lubricant anyway. I know it is widely thought to happen. never seen any evidence of such a thing. All people I have helped on the road ALMOST everyone with bearing failure had hardly any grease in the hub and what was there was flung away from the bearings long ago and the lack of lube at the running surfaces cause the overheat, blue and friction welding of inner race to axle. That is bad. Never seen one fail because of the presence of a decent amount of grease. I am a mechanic and have trouble what some mechanics believe, eg, certain concepts and spread those beliefs to the public.. As said, the grease gets hot and melts, many trucks run melted grease, ie, oil in their hubs, why? because oil is better than grease. They have seal and the seal is there to seal, same as a grease filled hub. No poor seal involved, it has a job to do and it performs that task. If grease caused roler failure, then why don't the greasable pressure filled hubs on boat trailers suddenly flat their rollers and fail. The roads would be littered with boat trailers if it were true. Aren't forums good?

Hi RMD

I said

“Thursday, Nov 28, 2019 at 00:04
I was advised by an old mechanic to put grease on the spindle and a little grease enough to cover the outer ball race. That extra grease also helps cooling.

But certainly those that pack the hub with grease are asking for trouble. Too much grease can cause slippage of the balls rather than rotation.”

So the first paragraph is imo good advice, not use little grease and not pressurise the hub with grease either.
The second paragraph I later supplied one web site confirming the balls can slip rather than roll, and there are many websites that state that possibility. So it isn’t nonsense as you described.
However you have supplied much information I’m grateful for.
Tony

Tim thank you for directly addressing my question. Most helpful. I was aware of the sealed bearings and when I saw the adhesive and no pin axle and how tight they were got me wondering about the left/right thread. There is a youtube from Al-Ko describing the dismantling process but it is a bit blurry about actually removing the nut and as much as I have enjoyed the gay repartee with regards to grease/bearings I was in fact wanting to inspect the brake linings.
David

Sorry, was a bit long-winded - just look for the inspection opening in the backing plate and you should be able to see how much lining is left on the brakes - you won't have to remove the nut or drum just to check.