70 series Landcruiser Rear Wheel Track

It also isn't a cure for the track, if the now quite large offset of rear rims are stressing the wheel studs to extinction. When the wheel comes off, which is does happen on the 5 studs design, it causes a problem.
The application and degree of forces taken through the wheel studs has therefore been significantly altered.

The original wheels are held on by the centre spigot and the nuts just keep them there.
If aftermarket wheels are used, then they need to have the correct size centre on them.

And the imbalanced load on your wheel bearings - the factory set-up is designed to evenly load the inner and outer wheel bearings, if you change the offset you transfer some of load from one bearing to the other bearing.

tim-c, I can see that working for 0 offset rims like on my van, but how does it work out for my factory Ranger ones that are +55

I am with you PhilD, there are a lot of vehicles that are not zero offset OEM so not convinced on the loading the bearing argument
Do the vehicles with big offsets standard from factory have heavier duty bearings than those with zero offset?
I am not aware of it

I haven't experienced any issues so far.

Regards

I didn’t think it was a big issue running the O.E tyres and used to post as such on forums, it was noticeable but not end of world stuff...going bigger in tyre size has massively exaggerated the effect though. My 79 is a pig of a thing to drive in soft sand now to the point it’s not fun beach driving these days, and on The Plenty Highway last year I also noticed the rear being more squirmy then it should be.
There’s quite a few options out there these days to correct the issue, Tru Tracker, Buds Customs, JMACX, DWIZ, just to name a few. All going well my new rear diff housing and axles should be arriving at the work shop today, and hopefully will be fitted in the near future and problem solved

There's no issue with the difference in wheel track - until you load the Landcruisers up with high centre of gravity loads, maximum loads, and loads centred totally on the rear axle, or slightly behind it.

In those cases, your Landcruiser becomes the vehicle from Hell as regards rapid switch from understeer to oversteer - the problem that VW Beetles have, that saw many thousands of VeeDubs rolled - much to the shock of their owners, who never saw the sudden switch coming.

A mate told me how he was riding in a 78 series Troopy, fully loaded with 5 blokes and all their camping gear - and they went arse-up within 5 minutes of running into rain on a stretch of unsealed road, which turned the road surface greasy.

They righted the Cruiser, and continued on - slowly - up the road, and came across another 78 series Troopy on its roof! - caused by the exact same circumstances.

There's a story on one of the forums, where a young bloke relates carrying an 800 litre spray tank on the back of a traytop V8 79 series, and he reckoned it was the 4WD from Hell, as regards handling. It was all over the road. It was his bosses, and he ended up not wanting to drive it.

But the 800L tank was located with about 20 cms of clearance to the headboard of the tray, probably making the load centred behind the rear axle.

His boss changed the tank setup, for other reasons, and moved the tank forward until it was hard up against the headboard, and the handling problems disappeared.

My nephew is running 7 x 79 series V8 traytops as heavy fitters vehicles. They are all running on the Toyota alloy rims.
They are loaded to the max with lockers, tools, parts, etc - and he's lost one, a complete write-off, via an "unexplained" rollover on a wet road - and two more have lost back wheels, when wheel studs sheared off at speed.

The rollover was an expensive one for the insurance company, these rigs cost him $109,000 each on the road, with all the barwork, lights, toolboxes and extras galore - and the rollover vehicle was under 12 mths old, and the nephew called in the insurance company on their "total replacement for a write-off under 12 mths old" - and they had to pay up the full $109,000 for a complete new vehicle as specced.

You have to ask yourself why numerous companies are making a "nice lil' earner" out of regularly producing 95mm wider rear axles or spindle extensions, for these vehicles, which can become unstable very rapidly, under the right conditions.

Cheers, Ron.

Ron
Your post above here may cause OzzieCruiser to not doubt his so called "armchair warriors" quite so much. I have seen 70 series cornering on a wet road and it was quite interesting try and work out which way the headlights would point next. Upping the power steer pump speed might help in correcting and control as 79's spin faster than the driver can get the wheels to point in the right direction.

RMD,...On a wet road cornering, most utes will break loose if you drive in a silly manner!

Depends on what Tyres, load, and a host of other things that can contribute to what will make it get out of control


Plenty of idiots around!

Cheers Axle

I must just be imagining it then Ron...my cruiser is far from being loaded up, it also had the tray shortened and all weight moved as far forward as possible (ie: no spare tyres hanging off the back of it like others do). Having owned this vehicle for 4 years now and driven it on plenty of outback roads and coastal beaches, I reckon i have a pretty good idea what they are actually like to drive.

I've had the Tru-Tracker modification on my 79 Series for about 5 years and it has improved the handling of the vehicle, especially in sand. Noting, our vehicle weighs in around the 3,400kg/3,500kg mark.

That is my experience from the driving seat!

Anyone looking to do a correction on the vehicle should look closely at tried and tested methods that don't compromise other components of the vehicle.

And worth highlighting that widening by any more than 50mm (25mm either side) using spacers or offset rims is illegal. At least, that is my understanding (happy to stand corrected!)

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Its illegal to use any spacers at all.

My reading of the road regulations indicates spacers are not legal. You may want to check carefully before fitting as not only could you get booked but your insurance could be void when it comes time to claim.

It would seem that Snake Racing dont even have a clue about the legalities of their product

Strange why Snake Racing have a video that claims spacers are legal wonder if they checked with each state before they went into production ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OzPk-jXCR8

Unfortunately Batt's, the 4WD market (no actually the entire automotive industry) is full of opportunistic marketers selling accessories and modifications for vehicles that aren't legal for road use.

Doesn't stop them advertising and selling them to ill informed or ignorant consumers.

Problem is, they aren't the ones to get the fines or defect notices and the associated costs for rectification.

Snake Racings final comment above illustrates the general attitude of the less scrupulous suppliers.

"If your trucks already illegal fitting spacers will make no difference"

Cheers

Anthony

Spacers are not 100% illegal as such, Porsche for example sell them as OEM and standard on some of their vehicles

But in general as an aftermarket modification not so much.

Snake Racing are talking a lot of horse doo doo. VSB14 is a Federal document and all States are signatories to it.
From VSB14 Section LS Clause 4.2.2 Wheel Attachment: "Wheel spacers (or adaptors for dual wheel conversions) between the wheel mounting face and the road wheel must not be used unless fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturer."

Gerry
I don't know about the book but I can't see how it could specify offsets etc while not stressing vehicle components too much.
Exactly what is too much? How is that defined?
Some vehicles have stronger axles/axle flanges , wheel studs and axle housings than others, so to be able to specify a degree of modification as ok, is pie in the sky sort of stuff.
In addition to the vehicle parts, the bearings of different manufacturers are vastly different in life and load ability, although same size. That wider offset may be ok with one spec bearing but destroy the wheel bearing of another brand in a short time, often resulting in no wheel on vehicle. That is not good for handling or control.

RMD,
I hear what you're saying but everything engineered has a tolerance of some sort. A lot of vehicles, especially 4wds, have played some part in "exploring" such tolerances.
The formula I saw did seem to concentrate on bearing stress and it has been the only "guide" I've seen.

Personally I wouldn't be impressed with Toyota if I spent big dollars on a 4wd that still needs further modifications which cost over $3,000 to fix the handling and tracking issues they created. Makes me wonder how they could stuff it up surely they have been making and testing vehicles for long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

Are the backing plates exposed after fitting spacers have you seen damage caused to backing plates as a result from installing wheel spacers that could be a danger or safety issue to the vehicle ? On my GQ without spacers the calliper backing plates on the front sits 30mm inside the inner lips of the rims and the rear are10mm inside the inner lips of the rims so the rear have less protection but are still fine after 26yrs.

How much extra brake pad wear is caused by these spacers and how does it occur and how much are we talking about ? Generally if you do go off road a fair amount you will usually notice brake pads discs and drums wear out faster.

Seen stone damage to rear backing plates on a chopped 105 series wagon, without spacers, and using standard rims. Wagon did a lot of off road & gravel road use.

Have seen Landcruisers wear out rear disc pads excessively when used on coarse or gravelly roads during rain, and the calipers aren’t hosed out before further use. Spacers are likely to accelerate the likelihood of this happening, with the calipers & disc being further exposed.

Bob