P Plate System?....Not sure its a safe idea or just adds more chaos?

Axle,

Agree 100%.

It's not speed that kills, it's difference in speed.

P-platers doing 80 on a busy 110kph freeway are a danger to themselves and others. But try convincing the roads bureaucracy!

Whats the difference between this and a vast majority of caravans? And dont say experience. The greatest nuisance on the roads by far in either 100 or 110!

The difference is the majority of drivers that believe its compulsory to be travelling at the posted SPEED LIMIT .Until they change the rules the signed speed limit is just that an upper limit and its up to you to avoid hitting anyone.
( p platers included ).

On German autobahns, trucks are restricted to 90kph and cars can be doing 200kph plus yet they coexist quite well. The difference is that the slow vehicles aren't allowed in the fast lane or lanes unless they are actually overtaking, and the fast cars are not allowed to overtake on the inside like they can here. In many places, trucks are not allowed in the faster lanes ever. I dont think they have provisional licences over there, I only mention it because the rules and system deal very well with slow vehicles and fast vehicles coexisting very well.

The best thing would be for all drivers to learn a bit of lane discipline. The reason european motorways autobahn etc. work so well is the separation of speeds by LANE DISCIPLINE.
On our motorways the vehicles all line up in the fast line because there is a slow vehicle on the left. Of course if they don't all line up then they will never get into the fast lane because everyone else is there and not willing to give up a position in the queue.
Perhaps our driving schools could help by concentrating on driving skills. But then our whole education system works to teach people to pass tests rather than learn.

Back on my Hobby Horse! The thing that would make the most difference to our roads is:

1. Teach people how to drive, not how to get a licence!
2. Teach them about road manners, consideration for others, and general good manners!
3. Enforce the road rules to ensure that drivers, actually stop at stop signs, park in accordance with signs, indicate their intentions etc. This will give people the expectation that if they break the rules in any way, they will get caught and they will get booked.

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Hey Axle, Do you have valid statistics for rear-end collisions with P-platers or do you just THINK it is a regular event?

If open class drivers are hitting P Platers up the bum, the problem belongs with the open class drivers. L and P plates are there to tell other drivers that the on-road skills of the driver will likely be in development and well below average.

The OP reminds me of the job ads for a Junior with at least 2 Tickets and 10 years experience.

Tossers arguing that the posted speed limit is the goal speed for everyone should try to understand that not every other driver is as good as they think they are.

Iza

i would like to mention that the problem lies in education. if a person live with a slow driver and is taught to fear driving they will ultimately be a slow right hand lane hog. not tooting my own horn but as an L-Plater and on friday a P-Plater, and my parents have taught me not to fear driving and to not hog the right hand lane unless overtaking. not to be egotistical but i have done 50 hours of country driving and have been properly educated as to how to overtake and keep to the speed limit whereas i have been with many of my classmates and they fear driving and this includes people on their P's and they sit in the right hand lane doing 5 kms under and dont keep left in overtaking lanes in short doing all the things i curse some drivers for.
in short the fear that is created around driving and the inumerable ads suggesting speed kille need to be stopped because saying speed kills is far to great of a blanket term. having traveled to germany and seen the autobahn in action. everyone moves out the way when faster cars come but in AUS we just try to educate them as to how speed kills and make them slow down to under the limit. welcome to the nanny country folks.

Not P-Plates but rather scared drivers are the problem i know plenty of people who think nothing of sitting in the right hand lane doing under the limit and only rant about how speed kills and me suggesting they do the limit send them into a lecture state.

not to mention at school we just had an independent driver safety educator and 90 percent of the whole course relates to speed. and how 5kmh is the end of the world and does not focus on other issues such as drink driving

Rant over

cheers jed

One thing is for sure, what's in place now appears to be tragically not working !!
The 2017 and especially Christmas road toll is just dismal.

I'm afraid though that this road toll issue and bad regular driving we see on the roads can't be addressed by road rules or legal systems, it is far more deep seated in changes in our social and moral fibres . . . much of todays issues stem from a society born from 2 dubious parents left wing political correctness and poor social policy.

No increase in fines, or penalties applied, will stop this.
Just be careful out there.

This fella has solved the perceived problem.

Link-P plater problem solving

Axle? are you bored now the test cricket is over.

Whilst agreeing with the majority of posters here, it has occurred to me that many of us are sounding like our parents at our age.

Both good and bad in that, I think.

Cheers,
Mark

My wife and I are just seeing the younger of our two teenage daughters through her 120 hours on L plates with a manual car. We didn't let them go on a motorway until they had 60 hours up.

What has amazed me is the discourtesy that they both have copped from other drivers. Even sitting on the limit in an 80 kph zone for example, so many "experienced" drivers see the L plate and simply have to overtake. And cutting off L platers in traffic seems to be par for the course. I suspect that some of this angst might also be directed to P platers.

It's a rotten example for youngsters learning to drive.

We had P plates back in the 70's, my older brother drove under P plates for his first year driving.

BUT ... nationwide they where abandoned as a bad idea and unhelpful ... only to be reintroduced on sterroids.


As for P platers having different speed limits to the rest of the population ..utterly rediculous.

A few years ago NSW had an 80KMH speed limit for light vehicles towing trailers ..... that too was abandoned as being unhelpful and rediculous.

We live in a time when we talk about equality and oppose discrimination & persecution, yet the legeslators seem to think equality and fairness does not belong on the road and persecution is fine


How about the government promotes good driving habbits and publicises road rules and changes ...... but there is no money to be made from that

cheers

I'm looking at this from my own progress through the yellow terrors and red priority P's

we had no log book back then, maximum speed allowed 72kmph on L plates you kept to left hand lane unless turning right. no way would you be allowed on a freeway SIMPLE AS THAT

P plates was maximum of 80kmph plenty of priority P platers got done for speeding lost their licences by various misdemeanors. I didn't.

I still shudder at the idea of a 16 yo being in control of a 2,5 tonne 4wd due to mass height and physics - but flip-side if they understand how heavy they are how long takes to stop then hopefully this makes them better driver in long run.

the part that really pisses me off and i seen it few times I am cruising at 100-105 come across a L plater go to overtake safely what do they do put boot into it leaving me on wrong side of road with another car now behind me with a on coming vehcile which has just appeared around the bend ahead.

Carry on for another 1/2 3/4 hr guess what catch up with same L plater stuck right up arse of a 4wd towing caravan doing 80-90ish. Overtook car caravan & 4wd in one go all safely at 110 back into left side of road never to see that damn L plater again

Axle,

I think we all enjoy your thought provoking, and sometimes just plain provoking posts.
On todays subject, I think all we need to do is drive our own vehicles properly and safely, and all else should take care of itself.


Cheers to all for 2018.

I would like to see a ban on L platers on major freeways or dual carriageways during double demerit times ( ie; the busiest times ).

If the parents think it is the best time to get their hours up, then they are not spending enough time with them at "other" times.

I know it won't happen, so no need to even mention P platers !!

A few still believe it is their right to do any speed they like, but the whole system flows a heap better if everyone stays at or near the speed limit.......and someone actually said some may not be confident at sitting on a 110 K speed limit ??? In that case, either the car or the driver probably shouldn't be on the road at all ??

It might be summer but the Broken Hill snowball rolls once more eh?
Last chance this year Axle.

I suppose it's hoping for too much in the NY that all drivers start looking ahead past the boot of the car in directly in front and planning their driving accordingly? How can someone "suddenly" come up behind some one doing less than the max. speed especially on a freeway?
Why aren't they actually paying attention to what's really going on around them including up front?
On the open hwy when towing we travel at around 95kph which should give plenty of kays more for other drivers to safely overtake and move back to the left hand side of the road. But constantly, non towing vehicles especially, race right up behind us then wander in and out "for a look" then get stuck right behind us so close they can't be seen.... then show absolutely no competence when they eventually make an overtaking attempt.
For road trains I'll pull as far to the left as I can but for the average dick head I'll just keep at a steady speed and watch their antics.
AlanTH.

Following the road rules, with "one-eye" on common sense (yes, yes, not all too common) is key to road safety.

But one of the major problems these days is that it is all about "me". Many seemingly expect you to run to their timetable, especially when on the roads.

Roads are crowded these days, there are drivers of all levels of experience, and vehicles of all different shapes, sizes, and level of roadworthiness.

Rather than "intimidating" other drivers to drive to your requirements perhaps it is better that impatient drivers allow more time to arrive at a destination, especially in peak periods.

And on running up the back of someone on a major highway because they are going to slow...

I suggest anyone who suffers this problem take this action;

Have eyes tested, and if still a problem, hand licence in...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Thanks for this thread, I was not even aware of these P- and L-plates. Good to know about them, since in a few months I will be doing a lot of driving around Oz. :)

Were these P- and L- plates in use back in 2008? I don't remember seeing them during my visit then.

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Axle, there is another aspect to the 'P' plate system.
Some years ago (1960's?) there was talk of raising the minimum driving age from 16 years to 17 or 18 years. The Police Doctor of the time (SA or Vic, I can't remember) opposed the age raise. His view was that at age 16, youths were still amenable to instruction and respect for the law, whereas by 17 or 18 they were beginning to believe that "they knew it all". He considered that the year of driving before age 17 gave them more experience whilst they were still in the compliant stage. I could see the logic of that view.

For whatever reason, the proposal to elevate the age did not proceed at that time.