Do not overtake turning vehicle signs

H i Johnat

I think you have covered the whole issue with your answer.

It may not save you from an accident from the idiots , but it does put you in the "right" if you need to use more than one lane to turn.

Without them I would be breaking the road rules and that would put me in the wrong.

That's why I will fit them for that little bit of protection.

Thanks.

Thanks Bantam. Will fit them.

Thanks crackles.

This is true , I would say in general I do not need the adjacent lane and do not use it. I would rather stay in the one lane for safety if I can.

There are many situations where relativly small combinations can not get arround legally without these signs.

for example multilane streets that have no parking along the curb...the left or right lane ( in the case of a one way steet) is right next to the curb.

There are a lot of roads like this in towns and cities these days.


These signs are for what they are prescibed for in the law...anything over the prescribed length.

I'm not about to fit a pair to my box trailer inspite if it being long enough behind most vehicles.

But it is entirely reasonable and practical to fit them to all but the smallest caravans....AND legal.

Almost without exception, heavy tip trucks will be fitted with these signs......heavy tip trucks are reasonably short as trucks go.......most of the modern trucks have very good turning circles.

So most tippers would be shorter and would turn better than a typical medium sized caravan towed by a 4wd..


cheers

You've nailed it there Batts. Many people will misunderstand a drivers intention if turning unnecessarily wide from the centre lane with a small vehicle towing a little camper just because he has some signs fitted.
Then again after watching the backing abilities of drivers at caravan parks, some not only need signs but would benefit from a flashing light & an escort vehicle ;-)
Cheers Craig.............

Hi Heather.

Understand what you are saying as these were my original thoughts.

Also it must be set at 7.5 mtrs for some reason by the RMS for Vans ,small trucks etc or why not make it 20 mtrs and only cover semi-trailers.

So they must know there will be streets where this assistance will be needed.

Therefore at 10.2 mtrs in my situation I will fit them to keep me legal if I need to make this type of turn.

Thanks Geoff.

You're right it is the most understood sign I'm not sure when they came out but I was never shown anything about them when I got my licence in the early 80's. I only began to understand what they were for when I had my learners truck licence in 1990. So then I started asking friends and relatives if they knew their purpose and 99% of them didn't know.

whoops I also ment "least understood sign"

Maybe they should bring in a special licence for people towing anything, that way the bad towers will not be able to tow....... but then again bad drives still seen to get licences making it legal for them to drive on a public road.

Most cavavan drivers do not know how to drive..... want to kill a few hours one Friday arvo and have a laugh, grab you mates and some nibbles and beer and head down to the local caravan park and watch them try to drive.

Olcoolone - you surely love those caravaners don’t you?
Most of the bad drivers I’ve seen are impatient hoons, tearing past in dangerous situations, whilst I’m cruising and enjoying the scenery at 85ks/hr.

you forgot to add holding up traffic creating a hazard

Olcoolone- Obviously you are the perfect driver and did not need to learn how to back up a van, usually people learn from experience and good advice from others around them, not from a bunch guys on the piss making fun of them.

Hi greywiki
Olcoolone leads an exciting life - getting his kicks out of watching caravaners.
I have seen some very expert caravaners getting big vans into some very tight spots.
Maybe if he left the beer and nibbles out of his caravan park entertainment he may pick up a few pointers.

Hi Batt
If you find negotiating a slower moving vehicle a hazard – maybe you should do a learner’s refresher.

"I have seen some very expert caravaners getting big vans into some very tight spots."

Yes and I have seen some very expert brain surgeons do some remarkable things aswell....... luckily they get to practice under supervision unlike many "I have problems parking at the local shopping center in my small Hyundia" caravan owners.

I am not attacking all caravaners, just the ones who don't have any real training or experience.

To be honest some in there early years of retirement of mid 60's have failing eyesight, lack of judgement, slow reaction times and an attitude I know every thing about anything and have never had experience when younger driving anything bigger then a passenger seat on a bus or train...... plus add in holiday mode and it's an accident waiting to happen.

Why do you think so many caravan parks are advertising drive through sites these days? ......obviously there is a problem with skills.

I don’t think it’s the carvaners who have an attitude problem.
Do you also have an unusual hostility towards other road users such as senior citizen drivers, P platers, cyclists, veteran car clubs etc?

"I am not attacking all caravaners, just the ones who don't have any real training or experience."

And just how should they get experience if they're not allowed to take their caravans out and about until such time as they have experience?

There's a big difference between patient for a learner driver loaded truck etc etc compared to an experienced driver holding up traffic deliberately because they choose to drive slow on the road because they didn't realise that they would use more fuel when towing a van which is a fact when you start talking to people when travelling most whinge about using more fuel because they expected to use only a couple of litres more compared to driving empty and towing a 2 ton van. Also lots complain when they buy their first 4WD to tow with because they didn't expect a 2 ton brick would use more fuel than an aerodynamic car which is another fact if you ask around If you set you tow vehicle up correctly with your van ,boat, trailer etc you can safely tow at the legal signposted speeds but lots of people won't believe this and are convinced it's dangerous as well so which is odd when they get passed by a by trucks which weighs a lot more . But what could be dangerous about a driver deliberately holding up traffic because it suits them to be an arrogant driver just to save a few dollars.

We have drifted a long way from the original thread, however:

Olcoolone- Changing the topic from supping a beer while critiscing others trying to back up in a park, to parking in shopping malls usually indicates someone who is stirring for stirring sake, failing eyesight! I wear implants and have better than 20/20 vision, the rest of your comments are stirs for stirring sake. Not sure for fun or sincere. Please remember that one day you will be in the 70's (if you are lucky) and have failing eyesight! hope that the eye surgeon who fixes you up is not the son of one of the oldies you are making fun off! I know off 2 road train drivers who can back up a triple but have problems backing up a single axle van on occasions. They have real training and experience? but off course you are well versed in this art, Not sure of your pedigree but of course you have been in the operating theatre and watched brain surgeons do the job they have been trained for? and of course supped beer and advised.

Batts- Have know idea where the consumption of fuel came into this thread but my simple views are that you drive to the conditions regardless of towing a van or empty, b*gg*r the fuel cost, as this has nothing to with driving to with the conditions, speed kills and stoping 2+ ton's on skinny tyres (compared to a truck) at a 100ks. have you ever tried it! I have (It can get the heart racing)
If you can travel at 85/90k's an enjoy the driving without hindering others go for it, if you are one of those who always has always to be in front regardless of the consequences i am sorry for you. Me I will travel at 85/90 and pull over when it is safe to do so and not before. Enjoy life and do not be into much of a hurry to enjoy for next.

Hi Batts
For some rigs it is safer to travel slower than the maximum.
With my 3 tonne, 7 metre van I am much safer travelling at 85ks than 110ks/hr - regarding stopping distance and snaking effect.
If you don’t understand this, I suggest you read The Dynamics of Caravan Stability byCollyn Rivers, an engineer specializing in this field.
I quote “Having researched this issue in depth for the past 10 or more years I would not personally tow any conventional caravan longer than five metres at over 90 km/h”

greywiki- Fuel consumption in one of the main reasons we have so many slow van drivers on our roads travelling at 80-85-90kph in 100-110 zones and you cannot possible drive like that without hindering others. As for your problem with stopping yes I've had to pull up in a hurry several times over the years it's just another thing that happens while driving nothing unusual about it I've owned 2 boat's 5mts plus and have owned a van as well and had no trouble stopping in a hurry regardless of having skinny tyres, maybe if you thought about it for a while you may consider wider tyres if you think your skinny one's aren't up to the job. If you have your vehicle set up correctly and brakes adjusted correctly good suspension and tyres don't overload the van distribute the weight correctly you should be fine.

Dennis it makes a big difference in your ability to control something if your van is heavier than your car it will be pushing you around and straight away you are setting yourself up by adding more problems to the scenario. Setting it all up correctly in the first place is one of the most important things fitting the correct springs, shocks making sure your tow vehicle and van are level use the right tow vehicle for the job don't try and tow the biggest van you can just because you vehicle might say it has a 3.5 t towing capacity doesn't mean it will actually be able to tow that safely. Sorry I'm not interested in reading your link I believe I have enough knowledge about all things related to this subject as I've never had any problems with my set ups some people don't need to read everything about some subjects they can figure things out by using common sense and having an understanding about what they are doing.

Hi Batts
You missed the point of my comments. "Drive to the conditions" If i have to i will sit on 100 but preference is for 85/90 and nothing to do with fuel consumption. My tyres are Bridgestone AT 697's and cannot get much wider without upsetting what the vehicle is designed for, truck tyres are much wider hence my comment re skinny tyres compared with trucks, my brakes are set up correctly and the suspension is good and designed for what I am towing weight distribution etc. If you have to hit the picks in a hurry it does not stop the heart racing. We also don't live in the perfect world of van loading etc etc.

We have come a long way from the original post of "Do not overtake turning vehicle signs"
The subject of speed, weight distribution, loading etc should become a new topic. Maybe Olcoolone could start it.I am sure he is an expert on it.

If you stick to the topic it makes for very boring reading...... So you go out with friends and you don't let them vier off topic.

Alway thought conversation was king!

Good to see so many having a sense of humour....NOT!

It is legal for non wide loads to use more than one lane and here is a little video of it. I can show places where I can put a semi around the corner without clipping the gutter but I would write the trailer off on the lamp post or street sign let alone the shop awnings.

A caravan will hit these same objects and is the same width as a semi, a little shorter mind you but in some instances they will clip things.

Many town roads are not to the latest standards and still require the use of 2 lanes and that is in a straight line due to objects and camber. Not 300mts from my home there is a 2 lane roundabout that requires the use of two lanes in a long vehicle.

I can go another 1k and show where you have to use 3/4 of the right lane to turn left.

It is not caravans I have to worry about when using two lanes to turn, it is normal everyday we never do anything wrong vehicle drivers.

DMR Qld link

I guess baby on board sign is only advisory.

Do not overtake turning vehicle when display in the appropriate manner on towed vehicles is a LEGAL INSTRUCTION.

Simple matter is , disobey sign at turn , get money ready for Police fine and Insurance Excess.

And seems some people who may not tow are resentful that people who do tow can have them and others have to obey them , or face the fines.

There is a lot of rules/laws people don't agree with , but you either obey them or break them and risk the punishment.

"Do not overtake turning vehicle when display in the appropriate manner on towed vehicles is a LEGAL INSTRUCTION."

I don't think it is a legal instruction for other road users to obey, I think it is a requirement and law for the driver of the vehicle that has to display the sigh that the signs are attached to.

"It is legal for non wide loads to use more than one lane"

Only on unmarked or broken line roads. The only time you can cross a constant line is if you are turning right.

coolone,

Quote "I don't think it is a legal instruction for other road users to obey, I think it is a requirement and law for the driver of the vehicle that has to display the sigh that the signs are attached to."

I thought it would be a good idea to get this from your own state. Note the truck using 2 lanes to turn. Hope others obey the turning vehicle indication and don't come up the inside of him.

SA.Time for a refresher

Makes sense and yes something learnt new today.

It's an interesting part of the law and it may be legal for the truck driver to straddle two or more lanes when turning but like all laws there is no mention in that "Drivers Handbook" saying other motorists must give way in this instance.

If it was law and other drivers had to obey it I would of thought they would of made mention in the "Drivers Handbook" saying you have to giveway.

I think it is an exemption under the road traffic act for the truck driver to not get prosocuted and is a "Common Courtesy" thing for other road users to follow.

And as for the truck driver they still have to apply caution and can still be prosecuted if they make an ill informed move.

It doesn't give them right of way.

I always give way to anything bigger then me, it's called survival but there still seems to be a minority of drivers (not truckies) who think this is my bit of road and I own it.

Yes you can display them if your 7.5 metres or longer which will include both trailer and vehicle, even if your combination doesn't reach the prescribed weights you can display them.

Cobber

Slow one is correct.

In addition, the regulations are quite clear, and I quote -

Please note that if your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) needs to straddle lanes or turn from an adjacent lane in order to turn left or right at intersections, and it is 7.5 metres long or longer, you must have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE”. Not having “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” sign on these vehicles is illegal. (end of quote)

So the question to ask yourself is - do I, with the rig I have, being 7.5 m or longer, need at times to use all or part of an adjacent lane in order to safely complete a turn? If the answer is yes, then you need the signs.

In my case the answer is clear. With a long wheel base dual cab F250 towing a BushTracker, there are times when I need to use more than one lane. But, I might add, that decision is not lightly made as it is not without risk. In those cases I judge that risk to be less than if I had stayed within the lane.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew , That TOTALLY sum's up the whole issue in a nutshell.

You have nailed it.

Well done.

Geoff.

I asked a question about the size of the sign, not the size of the Rig!!

So towing my 5 X 8 motorbike trailer behind my 200 series I should have the signs and then I can legally straddle two lanes when turning....... for some strange reason I don't think mister PLOD would agree...... and other road users too.

Thanks Landy

You have also put forward the real position concerning my question.

Didn't know what I was starting with my simple question , although it appears people are still not getting it , we can fit the signs , then we do have rights when turning.

Some of the views expressed here are the way some people want it to be , or think it should be , not the actual way it is.

That's a bit of a concern.

Thank you all , finished with this thread.

Geoff.