Pre Fuel Filters and/or water trap experiences

Mate call me a pain but this is a caravan web site and I belong to another site specific to my tow vehicle that site tells me all I need with regards to my tug . I think that you can get bogged down with too many suppositions when you delve into mechanics .

Mr John,
what the hell are you on about. You lost me anyway.

Drugs are a wonderful thing if you are the one who is on them.

Don't worry about his reply Rockape - I think he's a Julia Gillard supporter - which should explain it !


Gazz

Gday Rock A
Many years ago I fitted a filter system on a 50 ton Euclid because of a water problem. This filter system could not be touched by the operator and ran for 15 minutes after the truck had been refueled and turned off . The site manager and I were the only ones that knew the system was fitted. Water problem fixed...

Gazz,
All I want is some of those drugs he is on.

RA.

Muz,
Cummins or Detroit. Both would just about run on water. Ha.Ha.

RA.

RA
We found the problem was the watering can next to the overhead tank. The tank had a water trap and the water was processed .

RA
Sorry, it was a 1271 detroit.

Muz,
Many hate them but I love them. What a beautiful noise. They just got up and boogied. No wonder I am deaf now.

I don't see that there is any benefit for preventing water ingress by changing filter every 10,000k over changing it every 30,000k say.
It wouldn't matter if you have just changed your filter and next batch of fuel you got was contaminated, the same result will occur.
The OEM Hilux filters do not prevent water ingress.

Fuel filters will not remove water unless they are a stripping filter that is designed to do it.

Most don't have this feature at all, they are just a micron filter that prevents certain size crud getting through.

Just on that point Rockape, I have a FM100 per filter and alarm fitted with a 30 micron cartridge. I spoke with the technical services dept for them and they confirmed that their filters will filter water from the system

AlbyNSW
A 30 micron filter isn't small enough to be of any great use on a CRD engine as a pre filter. If around 10 or less then it does reduce what gets to the OE filter but a 30 is the same size as used on conventional diesel injection and just doesn't cut the mustard. Perhaps ok as a pre strainer but not as a pre filter even if it does dewater.

Ross M

RossM
I have no expertise in this area but on research and advice I came to the conclusion that
The Toyota OEM filter works fine as a sediment filter it is just water that it does not stop. I have not heard of any cases of injector failure from poorly filtered fuel apart from water ingress.
The other concern with a finer filter was restricting fuel flow and also damage to the fuel pump which I understand are expensive to replace
My main concern was detecting water in my fuel before it reached the motor so any additional pre filtering is a bonus.
I have the Standyne FM100 unit fitted with the audible buzzer and light warning system

As I said I am no expert myself so happy to be corrected if I have this wrong

Ross, I have to ask you what stops emulsified water going into your system. How does it alarm and how does the filter stop the emulsified water.

Water watch will pick up emulsified water in the fuel. Then you stop and remove the problem.

RA.

RA
The water watch does pick up water in the system and because it flows into the filter housing at the top, it is also going through the filter/gauze at the same time the water watch is detecting.

If it is large gobs of water then the probes will detect that immediately. The concentration has to get to 200PPM before the waterwatch will detect emulsified water. So when it detects it if the filter doesn't have some dewatering ability the emulsified stuff has already passed through the filter and on it's way to the HP pump.
Yes you stop and drain but the horse has already run down the lane.

My system uses a dewatering filter and that is designed, nothing is perfect, to attract and hold water emulsified in the fuel so it collects on the filter medium, hopefully on the outside and when built up/collected sufficiently enough it drops into the bowl. Claimed removal 95% of free water removed. So how emulsified that means is subject to discussion. Trust eh! We all trust something.

Either a large filter, larger than most recommend, or two in parallel will allow for the water to have enough time to settle somewhere and not keep trying to go to the engine so urgently. The flow on a V8 LC is higher than a 3litre engine so I see the filtering ability and dewatering to be particularly important because of the flow rate which can occur.

Mine doesn't have a warning the water is there, I look I see.

The OE filter does have both a water level in bowl sensor and also a restriction sensor which activates when the system pressure begins to go below zero.
This feature also works if the pre is clogged or waterlogged and therefore restricted.

I can be corrected but to my knowledge, the waterwatch while a good product cannot actually stop the water, either emulsified or droplets, from travelling onwards. Only the alarm and the stop and drain is the controlling factor. Perhaps I have missed something and it does stop it. I would like to learn more.

Ross,
as you say water watch doesn't stop water at all, it just warns of that it is there before it gets to the water trap/filter.

Most of the systems just use a float and by that time it is to late, others have no warning at all like yours that rely on you climbing under the vehicle to check for water and hope you have caught it in time.

For my vehicle (and I haven't checked ) it most probably uses the stanadyne fuel management system as used in the ford transits, this combined with the water watch gives pretty good protection.

RA.

Guys,
Ive used Chemtech diesel additive for donkeys years mainly as a biocide, and to reduce smoke. But one of its claimed benefits is:

"Handling of water in fuel more effectively for greater engine protection, by facilitating the break-up of stable fuel-water emulsions."

So it strikes me that you can't do much else about emulsified water. So on the 200series my plan is to keep the factory filters, and just continue to use Chemtech.

Comments?

Cheers
Phil

Phil G
Chemtech products are recognized as good stuff. However, if the additive "breaks up stable fuel water emulsions" what does it do with it then?
It might break up something, unsure what" and the water is still there so it needs to be reduced if possible. If you don't have a filter which both filters and at least attempts to dewater then you haven't gained any additional protection and continue to place all you faith in only one line of defence, the OE filter.

Ross M

Gday Ross,
I just phoned the Chemtech helpline and was put through to a helpful person in the lab. He explained that the Chemtech formulation was changed a few years ago, so it is no longer "water absorbing" and is now "water rejecting". The idea is that emulsified water will form droplets that will drop to the bottom of the tank or the filter housing, rather than be passed through to the common rail pump.

Phil

Phil G
Thanks for that Phil, it seems Chemtech, is formulated to aid precipitation which is what many dewatering filters try to do. Nice to know the characteristics of the product.
The main trouble I see is the fuel flow rate through any type of filter has to be slow so the precipitation by whatever means, has time to take effect to minimize any water content from going to the expensive bits.

That means a BIG filtering area or the fitting of a cheaper two filters in parallel so you have twice the water sump capacity and also lower flow rates through, so it can all have time to happen.

Ross M

ps. 400,000km the pump and injectors have failed yet.

should be haven't failed yet

Gday Peter
That looks like it slows the velocity of the fuel and give the water a chance to drop to the bottom.Possibly no restriction in the flow of fuel.