Battery isolator problems

I'm sitting here in Kalbarri in the drizzling rain which would be most welcome to the farmers, pondering on a problem I have with my auxiliary battery.

I have a dual battery system with a Red Arc Isolator. My problem is as follows:

The 60 amp fuse between the positive lead coming from the cranking battery to the isolator keeps blowing. This phenomenon started happening about a week ago. The first signs I had was a distinct click of the isolator coming on and off in rapid succession. The next was the fuse blowing.

Has anyone experienced this same problem?
Can a faulty connection in the fuse unit cause the fuse to blow? There is no sign of there being a short circuit and the fuse only blows after some time, not immediately.
or, can a faulty Isolator cause the fuse to blow?

any ideas would be gratefully considered.

Thanks
WBS
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Reply By: Injected - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:19

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:19
WBS
A stab in the dark but check your aux battery, if it has dropped a cell or is somehow earthing out/ short circuiting that would cause fuse to blow.
I stand to be corrected if wrong battery gurus out there
Cheers

Angus.
AnswerID: 428813

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:36

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:36
Suggest disconnect the "downstream" side of the isolator and check whether the fuse still blows - if it does, the problem is in the isolator. If not, reconnect at the isolator, disconnect the charging line from the aux battery and try again - if the fuse still blows, it points to a a wiring or load problem, if not, it points to the battery as already suggested. Continue isolating parts of the wiring to isolate the fault. My guess is that it is in the line from the isolator to the auxilliary battery.

Good luck,

John
J and V
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AnswerID: 428815

Reply By: Bushranger1 - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:39

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:39
WBS
Not sure if it would cause a fuse to blow but when I was travelling around Australia the number 1 problem I found was those stupid crimp connectors coming loose on the corrugated roads! I used extra heavy duty connectors & soldered all joints when I installed my duel battery sytem. Never had a voltage drop or single issue with it.

I took all my diagnostic gear with me in case I had any electrical problems but I ended up using it a lot of the time fixing fellow travellers duel battery probs. I have to say that I saw some very questionable installations that consequently gave nothing but trouble to people.
AnswerID: 428818

Reply By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:50

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 12:50
Hi WBS

email me directly with your mobile number and I will talk you through the test procedure.

Make sure you have a multimeter handy.

Not much can go wrong, it must be a short in the wiring or battery.

Regards

Derek from ABR

AnswerID: 428819

Follow Up By: redeye141 - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 15:43

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 15:43
Do not wish to steal the post.

But Derek the resistance values should be ohms not watt. A 0.25 watt resistor should be enough for the 100mA used for the LED.

Redeye
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FollowupID: 699587

Follow Up By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 16:51

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 16:51
Sorry that is a cut and paste from redarc.com.au

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FollowupID: 699589

Follow Up By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 17:00

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 17:00
Redarc must be following this thread, they have just changed their website.

Here is the update.

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FollowupID: 699591

Follow Up By: WBS - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:49

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:49
Derek,
Thanks for your kind offer. I am not a member and therefore cannot send a message with my mobile details. I will get on to your web site and contact you from there in three days when I get to Perth and have a base from where I can work properly rather than from a caravan park.

thanks
WBS
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FollowupID: 699616

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 13:30

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 13:30
Are you using the override option, or is it installed to use this all the time? If so, the current draw during cranking will easily blow a 60A fuse. Redarc recommend at least 100A fuses in this situation. With the override, it may start blowing fuses if the cranking battery is getting weak and more current is coming from the auxillary. There's a table in the instruction manual with the different fuse sizes:
http://redarc.com.au/static/files/Smart_Start_Instruction_Sheet-A5-4.pdf
AnswerID: 428823

Follow Up By: WBS - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:07

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:07
Phil,
I'm not using the override option. I realise after all the feedback that 60A may be inadequate although its been that way since 2006 with no problems until now. I suspect running two fridges off the battery may be too much current draw and will have to look into 100A circuit breakers rather than fuses. I'll sort it all out in the next few days. I'll talk to Derek from ABR where I know I can get all the bits I need to rebuild my system.

Thanks for your post.

WBS
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FollowupID: 699628

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:30

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:30
I think you're right that 60amps is not enough. I measure current with a clampmeter and find anything up to 50 amps is going into my 100Ah AGM.
Between Derek and Redarc, I'm sure you'll have the problem licked!
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FollowupID: 699629

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ . . .- Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:42

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 21:42
Redarc specify using a 60 Amp fuse for cables up to 6 Mtrs long

60 Amp fuse information

Maîneÿ . . .
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FollowupID: 699630

Reply By: Maîneÿ . . .- Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 17:23

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 17:23
WBS,
you say:
"This phenomenon started happening about a week ago.
The first signs I had was a distinct click of the isolator coming on and off in *rapid succession* the next was the fuse blowing"

This sounds like the Redarc is detecting instant high and low voltages causing it to connect and disconnect.

Does the distinct click of the isolator coming on and off in *rapid succession* happen when the engine is running? or only when engine off ?

Maîneÿ . . .
AnswerID: 428846

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:02

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:02
Hi
As Mainey has said the relay is reacting to high then low voltages ,that coupled with fuse blowing indicates either a wiring short after the relay or a
aux battery with a shorted cell/s.

Peter
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FollowupID: 699603

Follow Up By: WBS - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:04

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:04
Peter,
It happens when the engine is running,

WBS
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FollowupID: 699605

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:13

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:13
Hi WBS
That would be correct the relay should be operating through the ignition switch
or voltage sensitive to voltages that will only be obtained with alternator running.
Disconnect the aux battery ,if that stops it cutting in & out the aux is the problem.
If it still cuts in & out with aux disconnected then A wiring short to frame iis likely to be the problem
But to confirm it is not the relay with an internal short then disconnect the lead to the aux @ the relay
Peter
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FollowupID: 699607

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ . . .- Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:30

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:30
WBS,
also consider removing the Redarc from the system if all the battery cables (+) and (-) are firmly connected.

Remove the two battery cables from the bolts on top of the Redarc and bolt cable lugs firmly together, be VERY careful that they are then tied away from any and all metals, then run the engine for a while and see if the fuse blows again, this will eliminate the Redarc as part of the cause.

BEFORE doing this, first measure the standing voltages of both batteries separately, then again when the battery lugs are bolted together.
Putting the batteries in parallel the voltages will equalize, the Cranking and Aux battery should be about the same voltage when measured individually, when paralleled will equalize between the voltage of the two batteries.

(eg, 12.60v and 12.70v when paralleled will be ~12.65v when using same capacity batteries, this will show you you have a faulty cell in either battery)

Maîneÿ . . .
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FollowupID: 699610

Reply By: WBS - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:54

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 19:54
To all who took time out of their busy schedules to help me with my problem Thanks very much. I really appreciate your efforts and advice. I hope one day I can provide as useful help as I've received here today and on previous occasions.

To Derek from ABR-Sidewinder, thanks and I will get in touch when I arrive in Perth in 3 days.

To Redarc thanks for your input.

To all readers of this thread please refer to my separate thread dealing with Redarc-The company

WBS
AnswerID: 428869

Follow Up By: Maîneÿ . . .- Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 20:03

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 20:03
WBS,

If you don't fix the problem before you leave I was thinking you will have no fridge?

Maîneÿ . . .
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FollowupID: 699619

Follow Up By: WBS - Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 20:57

Sunday, Aug 29, 2010 at 20:57
Maîneÿ
Good point and one I've thought about.
I've taken the fuses out and isolated the auxiliary battery, disconnecting everything that was drawing from it so its not being used or charged. I can be without a fridge or two for a couple of days until I get to Perth. From Kalbarri to Perth its pretty much back in civilisation so I won't really need the fridges as much. What I do is run them overnight on 240 volts and don't open them all day until they are back on 240 volts in the evening.

I'll seriously address the problem in Perth where I'll be for several days.

Thanks
WBS
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FollowupID: 699627

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