Grass fire - Vehicle burnt out photos.

From the following website, http://www.myway2go.com.au/Gallery/137920,canning-stock-route-part-2-down-the-track-figures-107---126.aspx/1

Hi Paul,
Try this
http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=39329&sid=213184a47b1d8bfe393db06d4a826848

copy and past in address bar

Rob

Sorry Rob, but thought the pictures to be very good and graphic, not meaning to hijack your reply.

Hi Paul,
By the sounds of things, your eldest son has been living in a glass house and has never opened or read any four wheel drive magazines.
From your post, you will receive many replies, all basicly telling your son to have a look and read and you will find many cases of burnt out vehicles in places where vehicles have been driven in conditions where grass build up is a problem.

On the other hand, buy taking a few simple precautions, you can reduce the risk by stopping every half and hour or so, use a long wire probe to remove any build up around the exhaust, and have a spay container with water to spray any smouldering grass.

I am not having a go at you, as you are on the right track, but your son needs to do some very basic homework and he will find the answers.

All the best and do under estimate what dry grass and a hot exhaust can do to your means of transport, and ultimately causing very serious situation to be in.

Cheers

Stephen

Paul,

I hope the photos of the vehicles that have been burnt on the Canning Stock Route will help with the prevention of another burnt out vehicle.

I might also say that the number of burnt out vehicles on the CSR is very small compared to the number of vehicle that do the trip each year.

Image Could Not Be Found

Prado

Image Could Not Be Found

Ford Explorer

I have found that vehicles that have independent suspension and under vehicle protection do tend to collect more grass than other vehicles. Petrol vehicles are also more at risk, but that does not mean that a diesel vehicle will not have problems.

It is not only the hot exhaust pipe that can start a fire but the heat generated by a spinning tail shaft. The grass will start to smolder and it is not long after that the flames appear.
Putting the fire out can also be a problem. Water and of removal of the grass is the best way. A long wire hook is a good way to remove the grass before it become a fire.

Wayne

Paul

I do a bit of desert travel.


The first thing I have done when buying the next 4by is to remove all the bash plates. I have even removed the cover plates off the rear brakes (they got damaged) on the current GQ. Grass does accumulate on top of the fuel tank but I clear under the chassis every evening in the course of setting up camp (or even at midday if the going is rough).


Cheers

A 5 litre garden sprayer filled with water and a touch of detergent (acts as a wetting agent) works very well, can also be used as a portable shower if fitted with a shower rose.
We also carry a few 1.25 litre PET bottle full of water, when fitted with a cap with a 2-3mm hole they make excellent extinguishers when squeezed.
Remember any fire under a vehicle will be up against the floor and hard to get at, hence the need for pressure to inject the water into restricted spaces.
As has been said it is not just exhausts that start fires, spinifex and grass will catch fire from friction on moving parts like tail and driveshafts, the heat from the brakes can also ignite it.
Vehicles fitted with traction control are especially at risk from brake heat as while the driver may not be actually using the brakes in sandy country the traction control system may be working overtime.
Vehicles with catalytic converters (all later model petrol and some recent diesels) should never be stopped on grass as the heat from the cat will ignite spinifex straightaway. Note too that green spinifex can be more flammable than dry due to the resin on the leaves.

Thanks All,
The is good consistancy in the message on suitable preparations.
Thanks or the tip on detergent as a wetting agent.

My understanding of the method is that the water is used to take the heat out of the area (plus extinguish visible flame) and the wire is used to remove the fuel. Based on the three things required to have a fire Fuel, Heat and Oxygen.

Has any one had the small spay bottles and a 5l bottle and successfully put out a fire?

I would imagine the situation would require some very cool heads !

Paul.

Hi Paul,

Cape York Connections put out a video of The Canning Stock Route.

In the video in real time Peter Ikin the tour leader is filmed using a wire hook to pull out Spinifex that is blackened and actually smouldering!

That vehicle was probably only minutes from total disaster.

Geoff

Also remember that you may only have a few seconds to get out of the car. We saw a 4x4 set up awhile ago. He had 2 fire extinguishers on his cargo barrier and his epirb as well. He also had some emergency gear, fire blanket etc. I asked him in a fire how quick could he get to it. He said very quickly, not a problem. He sat in the drivers seat and I yelled fire. The epirb and fire gear is now in his drivers door and the extinguisher is on the passengers floor. By the time he got his kid out of the way it would have been all over. If you have any hope of getting these fires out it must be straight away, not after you unpack the back to get the water out.
While travelling through S.A. we got a call from my parents travelling a couple of hundred meters behind us to say the passenger door was on fire. I turned around and by the time I pulled up my wife had the extinguisher of the floor ready to go. Turns out the electric window switch shorted out. If we needed it we had the extinguisher ready to go.
We carry the epirb in the door so if we have to abandon the car I simply grab it on the way out.

Josh

Remove whatever plates etc that are not a "nescessity" from underneath the vehicle and as Kiwi Kia said .... keep a pair of gloves handy ....

Maybe in a 14yo size ... LOL

Its not just spinifex that can be a problem ... any petrol veh with rubbish catching bash plates and cat converters is at risk .... regardless of grass type ...

I carry a pair of thick gardening gloves ... handy in central west NSW burr paddocks. Have been used to pull out clumps of smouldering compost from the bash plate a few times.

Give some thought to fuel line connections as well .... I dont trust those flimsy plastic arrangements some makers are using ... only takes one stick to snag the line and .......

On my vehicle I have 2 x 100 liter stainless water tanks plumbed together - and a 12V marine deckwash pressure pump plumbed to snaplocks on the front bull bar and rear bumper bar!

I have a 20 meter hose and nozzel behind the rear seat that snap on to the front or back connections!

(I have a short hose as well for casual use, washing beach sand off diving gear and wet suits etc before stowing and showering occupants after a ocean swim, to keep beach sand out of the vehicle, and allow a comfortable days travelling for passengers after a swim in the ocean, without the dry itchy feeling of salt on your person).

The connections are all brass not plastic.

This in addition to the 3 fire extinguishers I carry.

I installed the water system - more for dousing molten tyre fires on the tandem boat trailer than fighting grass fires under the vehicle - but it would do either equally well - just as it can be used to assist any one else who has such a misfortune while traveling the highways and byways.

Being stainless steel - if stranded you can use it as a drinking supply if needed.

It's also plumbed to allow me to water down the 7 radiators out front & behind the grill when towing the boat on hot days to keep the transmission oil cool while on the move.

Theres 101 good uses for water when travelling - including extinguishing fires!

For a smalll grass fire sometimes a small dry powder extinguisher isn't enough.

Bout a week or so ago the TV show late at night called "cops" showed a sherrifs town car chasing a SUV that went off into a pine plantation. When it eventually bottomed out on a small diameter pine log and got stuck, a grass fire started under the sherriffs car - and he used his dry powder extinguisher for 3 short burst attempts to extinguish the grass fire under the vehicle caused by the hot exhuast pipe..and failed!

The whole car was gutted in about 5 mins tops.

You can get a Red 20 liter knapsack sprayer that you see the Volunteer Fire Brigades use. Its a way to carry an extra 20 liters of spare drinking water comfortable on your back and IF needed - it's already optimised for fire fighting use.

Fire remains an ever present threat in this dry country of ours!

You cannot have too much water!

Cheers

Yes, those pictures of the "Prado on Fire" were emailed to me in April 2007 along with the following sobering description:

"This incident apparently occurred on the Canning Stock Route in Northern WA. It is essential in this sort of terrain to stop every 1/2 hour to remove the Spinifex grass from the places it gets caught under the vehicle (exhaust shields, bash plates, chassis rails, etc). These guys were diligently doing just that, but it is easy to miss a little nook somewhere with disastrous results.

4 fire extinguishers and a case of beer were not sufficient to fight the fire, but did at least buy them enough time to get all their gear out of the vehicle.

To see a brand new Prado reduced to this brings tears to my eyes. ;-( "

Unless I missed it, no-one has mentioned that spinnifex (in particular) causes a resin build up where it has been dragging under vehicles. This resin is the main reason why it is so difficult to put out a fire under a vehicle.

Sure, the grass is usually the starting fuel of the fire, but is the resin that keeps it going. It has the ability to reignite after first appearing to be extinguished. For this reason, water is often not enough to put out a spinnifex fire. Certainly those carrying 15 to 20 litres may well get caught short.

I attended a training course in the Pilbara years ago and at that course they demonstrated the correct technique to use dry powder to smother the fire. The object was to use as little powder as possible to extinguish the flames, and then locate and thoroughly coat any resin deposits with the remaining powder. If the fuel can't breathe, it can't burn.

It is a lesson that has stuck with me for all of the intervening years.

Obviously, removing the fuel source BEFORE a fire is the best deterrent, as pointed out by many of the previous posters.

Cheers

Russ

Thanks all for some absolutely fantastic input.
Paul.